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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:19 AM
cant get right !!!
trucker41's Avatar
United States, CA, Victorville
Joined Sep 2012
321 Posts
Question
how to get cyclic and colective to move in conjunction with head

hey josh here . i have a ? about controls . as in collective throttle/ and cyclic stick . i would like to make them move in conjunction with the head but cant seem to figure it out . i have been going over it in my head and on paper . and it seems there is no way to do this mechanicly . seeing how all three servos move at the same time when using collective and and ail and elv . the only solution i can come up with is servo operated cyclic and collective movements . and even then there would be the prob of isolating the movements from the inputs givin by the fbl controller to the other three servos . i have been pondering this dilema for about three weeks . with no success . so if you have any idea or already know how this is done . your help would be greatly apreciated . thanks in advance josh
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:48 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,442 Posts
What you are asking does not make sense. Are you trying to isolate the collective movement from the cyclic? That is MCCPM and you don't want to go there. That was when your collective moved all three cyclic servos on a tray system and their movements were independant of each other, yet combined, as throttle was tied to collective in normal mode and then disconnected in Mode 1/2, where throttle was locked at your pre-set level. Is that what you are wondering?

The only other thing I can think of is if you have some older head system where when you moved the throttle stick up, the swash moved down and vice-versa. That was strictly the mechanical setup of the head from one manufacturer to the other, as I have my 450 Pro where the swashplate moves up and the blades go positive and my CP Pro 2's where the moves down and the blades go positive. Puzzled.

Don
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:51 AM
cant get right !!!
trucker41's Avatar
United States, CA, Victorville
Joined Sep 2012
321 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
What you are asking does not make sense. Are you trying to isolate the collective movement from the cyclic? That is MCCPM and you don't want to go there. That was when your collective moved all three cyclic servos on a tray system and their movements were independant of each other, yet combined, as throttle was tied to collective in normal mode and then disconnected in Mode 1/2, where throttle was locked at your pre-set level. Is that what you are wondering?

The only other thing I can think of is if you have some older head system where when you moved the throttle stick up, the swash moved down and vice-versa. That was strictly the mechanical setup of the head from one manufacturer to the other, as I have my 450 Pro where the swashplate moves up and the blades go positive and my CP Pro 2's where the moves down and the blades go positive. Puzzled.

Don
no . what i want to do is have the flight controls in the cabin of a scale heli move in conjunction with the swash movements .
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 12:23 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,442 Posts
With most three axis gyros, you need to run no internal mixing and let the gyro do that for you. If you are running a separate gyro from your receiver, you may be able to put a ''Y" harness between the receiver and the gyro to take the signal for your internal servos in the cabin. As long as you do that, there is a good chance that it will work. Since it is a straight signal, you would take the feeds from Aileron, Elevator, and Aux1 to get your servo signals. There may be some combined movement but it may not be too far off from reality, anyway. I know it would be easy with a DX18. If you are running a stand-alone gyro/reciever like the 3GX or Skookum 540/720, it will be tougher but not impossible. A hint. Twin receivers.

I am running two receivers in my MD500 TD. It is with a Spektrum system so it is actually possible to have two receivers bound at the same time to one transmitter. Let's take your 3GX/Skookum system and get it completely setup and running with everything ready to fly. You leave it alone and now setup your second receiver so that the three servos are connected to the appropriate channels and do all your adjustments on the servos and arms. You do NOT change direction, endpoints, or anything else on that system in controlling the servos. You must do this or it will bugger up the 3GX or Skookum setup.

Now, power down, put the bind plug in the cabin servo receiver and set the flight control receiver to bind upon startup. Now you have to power up both receivers (one battery connection to both or switch to both will do this easily) and then power up the transmitter in bind mode. Both should now bind and you are off to the races. Confused yet? Your second receiver will be taking direct signals from the transmitter and moving the cabin sticks according to your transmitter sticks and your gyro will be moving the flight servos to fly the heli. Take care.

Don
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 12:26 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
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For that matter, you could put your cabin receiver in the canopy with the servos and you only need to power it from the main system battery. Lot's of possibilities.

Don
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 12:44 PM
cant get right !!!
trucker41's Avatar
United States, CA, Victorville
Joined Sep 2012
321 Posts
for some reason when i posted this thread i knew it would be you with the answer lol . thanks a bunch i didnt know you could bind two rx to one tx at the same time and if im using a dx7s and a extra 6 chnl rx i could actualy control 3 mor functions in the cabin awesome idea thanks again
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:08 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
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Just remember that what ever the main receiver controls, the other will be identical so don't put critical functions on the second receiver. You will not actually have thirteen channels but two identical 6/7 channel receivers in how they funtion. Your 7th channel on the one receiver will be able to do retracts or landing lights, as example but what ever the first receiver with the flight controls does, the second set of servos will do exactly the same. Take care.

Don
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 07:44 AM
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Cougar429's Avatar
Canada, ON, Windsor
Joined Apr 2008
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If I am to understand his request, he wants to have the controls move in a scale cabin identically to a real heli.

I'm making the assumption he is working with CCPM mixing here as some of the older helis mechanically separated cyclic and collective. I'm also not sure if the stab systems take CCPM inputs or require mixing to be turned off as with some of the coax where that was done onboard. Either would make the task a lot easier.

If CCPM is active and you are limited to 6 or 7 channels that second Rx may be the only solution as the final swash servo signals, either from you or the stab system, would still be mixed.

As keyrigger suggested, tying into the swash servo signals for AIL and ELE would be relatively easy, but you would have to have some method to program out the throttle inputs to prevent that from biasing the servo positions one way or another as they do to the swash servos themselves. That throttle signal should be straightforward and regardless of the CCPM mixing should come out of the throttle channel clean.

If I had an 8 or greater channel count system I believe the simplest method would be to slave the AIL and ELE functions each to a channel above the normal 6 required for CCPM.
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