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Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:56 PM
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I get a lot of emails about "what motors did u use, how are they wound"

The prototype shown in our videos are using a KDA2208 12 slots/14 poles with 80 turns of 0.16mm in a 2-layer star configuration. Other people have used similar sized motors with 60 turns of 0.2mm.

The KDAs are horribly made - magnets are unevenly spaced, so they are less than ideal. I would not recommend them, but they do work.

Its important to use a motor that has as little magnetic "cog" as possible. More poles and slots are probably good. Aim for a resistance of between 5 and 10 ohms per phase, depending on intended load - we got 8ohms on our prototype.

Some motors are nearly impossible to pull apart, because the parts are glued woth epoxy and the windings covered with epoxy.

An MT2208 would be perfect, but I couldnt manage to pull it apart - I guess it was not designed with that in mind - too much epoxy. Its also a rather expensive motor to cannibalize.

A suppo/mystery 2208 can be pulled apart (you need to remove bearings, and heat it up top remove the stator element). Its cheap and should work well, but I have not had time to wind or test one yet.

Scorpion makes several of their motors as kits, some of those may be good candidates for DIY.

But many other motors should work, we can not cover them all and hope that DIY people will share their results. We have seen DT750s, 5010 and some 44xx ala dualsky beeing used on some larger rigs, but can not confirm any of these.

I believe that in Alekseys motor winding video he is using an Emax 2205 and making 60 turns of 0.20mm. The winding tool is made from a syringe and a hypodermic needle.

перемотка двигателей, AlexMos Simple BLGC (5 min 38 sec)
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by wearypanda View Post
This is a fantastically clever and very exciting development. I have funds set aside to buy a Zenmuse but will now put that on hold as I would much prefer to work with a less expensive and less proprietary system. Subscribed to this thread and like a kid counting the days till Christmas.
Boom, that's exactly what will happen thousands of times now. The market for $3500 NEX gimbals (Zenmuse quality!) that work only when you also buy a $1300 FC from the same company has just collapsed.

And the market for $1000 GoPro gimbals (Zenmuse quality!) that work only if you buy a $220 FC from the same company has collapsed before they sold a single unit.

Who would have believed this only 4 years ago. Remember how crappy all videos looked just 4-5 years ago, even on the most expensive servo-driven gimbals.

Then came last year the Zenmuse with those new type of motors. More or less the same price as the most expensive old-generation servo-driven gimbals, but lightyears better and finally really video that you could call stabilized (almost like steadycam).

Now if that wouldn't be enough, somebody even tops that, achieving the same quality by using cheapo BL motors that are produced in the bazillions every year, just by modding them. But cheaper and as stand-alone unit, not having to spend another $1k on an FC that you don't need or don't want just to have a dongle for the closed-environment Zenmuse. And not limited to a specific camera.

Actually too good to be true...
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:20 PM
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JussiH - have you talked with Tiger about having them custom wound? Pop me a pm with the specs you would need and I can email my contact there to ask what they could maybe do if you like. Maybe even the cheaper MS2208 would be good, as its made a bit lighter and cheaper bearings which for this use may not matter much.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:45 PM
Friend is a 4 letter word...
JussiH's Avatar
3rd stone from the sun
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Originally Posted by flitelab View Post
JussiH - have you talked with Tiger about having them custom wound? Pop me a pm with the specs you would need and I can email my contact there to ask what they could maybe do if you like. Maybe even the cheaper MS2208 would be good, as its made a bit lighter and cheaper bearings which for this use may not matter much.
Thanks, Paul from Flyduino has already contacted Tiger, and we await their reply. But I think we have a better alternative, that I will share with you once we get confirmation from the manufactorer.

Basically, the ideal spec for a MT or MS2208 would be somewhere between the 60 turns of 0.2 and 80 turns of 0.16 - but only a reallife test could tell for sure. Both may turn out to work.

The height of the stator is important to consider, since a higher stator would allow more copper totally, and they differ between manufactorers.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Ok, so now that we have that cleared up, how about an "estimated" pricing for your gimbal.

Your design being so simple it should be relatively inexpensive.

Mike
Hi,

the estimated price is for the moment in the 500 range but we expect a bit less. It includes everything including custom wounded motors made in Europe, IMU (sensor) support, controller alu enclosure, cables, analog video 10 pin usb angled cable with silicon wires and 2 kind of mounts for fitting different popular frames.

Reason i can't tell the exact estimation is, motors / controller are all sorted out, small furniture also, but mechanics, we need to make a pre-series batch milling and adjust the milling strategy / speeds / various stuff to know exactly our costs for each part, and all this then is depending on how many pcs we mill on one batch, as stopping a Mazak milling center for 1 hour to mount the tools cost over money because the machine does not work during that time and is supposed to produce.. Then we have an additional cost to program all the milling (still time lost) and have to report these costs on the manufacturing of the batch.

This is the reason why we had launched " pre orders" lists, free of charge, to adjust our first batch quantities which will always lead in saving some costs, but only once we finalise the prototyping and make a first pre-series batch to ensure perfect repeatibility( constant quality and dimensioning), then , i'll be able to give THE price

What you see on the rendering is totaly uncomplete and voluntary messed up on some aspects, you can see that there is no acces on micro SD without unmounting the cage, no IMU sensor support, pat of the arms design missing.. This is just to avoid our far far away friends in China to reproduce ( well they do not like to mill smalll details as we do, it's not " cost effective" for them.

now, based on what you said, i made the funny comparison with some well known 2 axis DSLR gimbal with 2 servos, no controller, a bent alu plate as DLSR support and 2 carbon U plates + a small alu support, damn you are true. I should have put the price tag in the 900's lol )))

More seriously, we can't be competitive on standard design because of china, we would sell one batch and then what? tey would copy at half price...

So we prefer to stay in the " hype" milling and try to make it survive away from Asia manufacturers, i have been very very surprised of the interrest people ad into it.

Ok, all is said now for sure, let's give back this thread to his original owner, for any other question, please contact me by PM

Best regards

Fabien
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:01 PM
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Can Tilt be controlled via user (RC) whilst stabilization is active ?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:05 PM
DiaLFonZo - UAV/Drone
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Originally Posted by TNTJET View Post
Can Tilt be controlled via user (RC) whilst stabilization is active ?
Yes...

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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:25 PM
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Dialfonzo, Thank YOU!..
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:31 PM
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Cool project.

There are so many talented people on here, when are they going to work together and come up with a reliable tracking software to support the gimbal!? Kinda like the one they use in a Cineflex!? There are plenty of programs out there, that already have tracking... just combine the two! NOW!
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:57 PM
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:39 AM
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Jussi,


Have you considered ipower 2217 motors? Those would be good candidates that are verry cheap but good. I love my ipowers. Nice big bearings.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:54 AM
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Damn this thread is growing fast.
Guys just remember to update the first page whenever some essential info becomes available. Keep up the great work!
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 04:25 AM
Friend is a 4 letter word...
JussiH's Avatar
3rd stone from the sun
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Originally Posted by rwijnhov View Post
Jussi,


Have you considered ipower 2217 motors? Those would be good candidates that are verry cheap but good. I love my ipowers. Nice big bearings.
Not really, I dont have any Ipower motors in my box. But if they have minimal cog, and they can be pulled apart, you could be the one to find out...
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:24 AM
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Germany, NRW, Dusseldorf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neavissa View Post
Cool project.

There are so many talented people on here, when are they going to work together and come up with a reliable tracking software to support the gimbal!? Kinda like the one they use in a Cineflex!? There are plenty of programs out there, that already have tracking... just combine the two! NOW!
It's already happening.
The AutoQuad team is working and discussing on the matter of visual tracking and navigation for some time now.

Coincidentally there's a public discussion with Fabien aka E-Copter aka Bricobrac at our forum:
http://forum.autoquad.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1835

We've also been in contact with former OpenPilot dev team members.

We've looked into several existing solutions like the TLD system by Zdenek Kalal:
http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Z.Kalal/tld.html

Predator: Camera That Learns (4 min 12 sec)


Hardwarewise we're looking into developing our own units based on embedded systems running on a daughter board attached to the AutoQuad flight controller.

I do see a wide open space for this and a very exciting experimental field that is occupied by scientific/universitary or commercial/military projects atm.

Once the first milestones have been reached I'm sure it'll unleash another boom in the semi-pro sector of MRs.


The Lidar LDR-M10 system might be a good start for experiments as it offers rather reasonably priced hardware:

LIDAR 3D GESTURE TRACKING (1 min 11 sec)


This whole matter is still in baby shoes. The brushless gimbal will be just one piece in the puzzle but let's make 2013 the year where it happens!

Norbert
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:24 AM
DiaLFonZo - UAV/Drone
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Originally Posted by TNTJET View Post
Dialfonzo, Thank YOU!..
No problem..
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