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Old Jan 24, 2013, 01:11 PM
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somewhere in space
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfi666 View Post
I've talked with Fabien for few days now and he seems very straightforward and serious guy.
From what I remember, since the beginning as the video was there, Jussi was credited ("A small video of Jussi Hermansen, on Alexmos based gimbal controller")

It never says that Fabien's gimbal was the one that made the video, everyone can see that on picture is only a 3D model.

Although, nowadays, its pretty common to sell something that don't exist yet - but at least he is not asking for deposit.
lol, wait and see...


seen on bevrc facebook...:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater

Chiness guy want to eat the cake too
Hk is the next ?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 01:16 PM
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I wonder what those dampers are.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 02:40 PM
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Germany, NRW, Dusseldorf
Joined Jun 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epyonxero View Post
I wonder what those dampers are.
These are rubber grommets. Industry uses them in all different shapes for vibration damping, isolation or protection of wires and mechanics on moving or shaking units.

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Old Jan 24, 2013, 02:51 PM
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Paris / Nice, France
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinderkram View Post
Same here:
http://www.e-copter.com/portal/?page_id=97

I asked them to tell their customers that the video doesn't show their own product which you can preorder though they have nothing to offer except a 3D rendered image.

They meanwhile mention that this is Jussi's product but as a customer I'd be under the impression that is a gimbal ready for purchase.

Of course, my message is "awaiting moderation" for over a day now...
Cowards!

Hi,

well, maybe it's time to put things back in order....
I am the owner of E-Copter.
Known as "Bricobrac" here on RCG since 2004, if you make a few searches you will know me a bit better
I have like you guys bought a license from Aleksey ( simpleBGC)
I am like you making a gimbal and reason i show only renderings ( i can post pictures of parts we are used to produce..) is to prevent beeing copied , you will note that the renderings are deliberately tweaked and with mechanics volunteer" bugs".

The real story is, i have been asking Aleksey if i could use his design, and in which conditions. We have agreed on a solution, and we already had with David made some renderings and concepts just for "esthetics" as we wold have made a gimbal anyway to fit the system whoever would have made it.

Then, on a french forum i saw the video and saw " Alexmos / Autoquad" and did put it on my website and wrote " Jussi video". I did not know, at that time, that Viacopter had an agreement also with Aleksey.

We have been invaded with reservations ( they are free of charge, we do not ask a penny, it allows us just to adjust the batch productions on the CNC milling machine and make sure we reserve time windows on them that is enough for producing, and calculate our costs of production ), and i've been a little bypassed by the number of messages.

I had then a message from Norbert and took the time to answer him, then contacted other related people who said it was ok to leave the video with mentions.

Not to say, if i had been afraid of showing viacopter video and do by the same way some promotion for them also, i would simply have removed the video, but i like to solve things clearly and i'm for peace on earth ( lol )

Some distributors have also contacted me as i do other products for some people, and i have said "yes", but mentioned that prices were not definitive, and that i did not allow ANY pre-order paying things ,, only email adress and reservation wish.

Kopterworx in Slovenia has been a bit fast on facebook and forget to put the mentions on the video, which irritated viacopter ( and it is normal).

Things have been solved since, and we had contact with Jussi, and in fact, we all work from the same platform ( simplebgc from Aleksey) and have each our offer, which are definitly not competition to each other, i would even say, they could be additional as they would cover from DIY to high range offers.

So i would ask you to forgive me if i made any mistake there, one more time if you check my history on RCG i have spent hours to help in Rc helis like the Dragonus and others, and if you search for " dragonus flybar cage " you can see already what kind of parts we wre able to design, and mill, long time ago. So renderings are not like the reality, reality will be much more sexy honestly, and i would only ask people to ask and make a judgment from acts , from what they will get in their hands, and reality instead than on rumors and feelings.

Now, i can say that from what seemed to start pretty negative has turned more than positive, as it allowed me to get in touch directly with Jussi so we can exchange our thought, and discover that like us, he has a licence from Aleksey and that we both work in the same kind of directions . So this has gone to some very positive discussion, i won't say more for the moment but what i wold like people to understand is :

- We are not into competition with Viacopter / Autoquad. We both are in the same boat: proposing something new and that generated lot of interest

- We work from same platform base , designed and realised by Aleksey ( Alexmos / SimpleBGC) with licencing ( we are not ripping off his work)

- We have the luck that such an idea and realisation came up from Europe and that for once, we can propose products with quality at a decent price ( whoever says that we are too expensive, i would just say look at the price of a basic gimbal with 2 servos on the internet and then get back to me and explain lol )

- THis comes exactly before the Chinese New Year, meaning, we can work like crazy all this month and have the time to release finalized products before cheap and weird copies pop up everywhere, letting us the time to establish, both of us, some quality reputation

- This is a fantastic business opportunity and all this is allowed by Aleksey. He is the one, he is the brain and the initiator. We are the hardware carriers.

- Demand is so high, that it will not be possible to fulfill everybody as he wish, and our diversity in offers and choices will allow people to choose and pick up in what please to them and what is available at the moment they want it.

We are no spammers or wind sellers. We have real production ability, going from Mazak 3 axis milling machines to Mazak Integrex 5 axis and Mazak Nexus Matrix 4 axis, all 2 and 2,5 D shapes are programmed in proprietary Mazatrol language and 3D patterns are made from solidworks with Mastercam and post processed on the Mazak machines. We mill aluminum 7075 real grade and what we show, we can do it check our website in " realisation", it's just a few pictures but they will tell you thousand times more than what i could write or try to explain.

Finaly, i did not accept to publish Norbert"s message because it was not fair and there was some things he could not know about us. I understand his reaction as he was true on the basics (this was a video from a " competitor" and i took the time to send a long email back to him, explained that i had put the name from the beginning over the video and that in the video on Youtube it was clearly written " Autoquad" and i did not get any answer, well honestly we have so much work and messages and things to solve and produce, i did not chase more and just did let it go, and i am sorry one more time.

Thing is, the video is still on our website, i have added tons of informations over it ( just check " brushless gimbal" section and look at the bottom of informations the video, i do not think we would leave it if we were ashamed of our abilities to produce what we talk about or had a problem with Jussi / Viacopter

The market is huge and there is enough for every taste and working in good relations with other people who have a common contact with yourselve is i think the way to go, this is the way i see it anyway.

Thanks for your tie and patience to read my horrible and long message and shall you ave any question, please send me a message on my website from the contact form, i read them overnight in general.

BEst regards, and thank you one more time to Jussi for the time he spent with me over the phone, this was really appreciated and i hope more positive things will come up. ow that things are cleared, we can all get back to work and make these damn gimbals systems come in peoples's hands ))

Best regards

Fabien
E-Copter
Stinky cheese country
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 02:58 PM
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Fabien,

Thanks for posting. I consider the matter completely solved after our telephone chat - and I appreciate your mindset on it.

Best regards

Jussi
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:04 PM
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Paris / Nice, France
Joined Aug 2002
2,091 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JussiH View Post
Fabien,

Thanks for posting. I consider the matter completely solved after our telephone chat - and I appreciate your mindset on it.

Best regards

Jussi
Hi Jussi,

thanks a lot to you too ))

Best regards,

fabien
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:17 PM
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Paris / Nice, France
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinderkram View Post
These are rubber grommets. Industry uses them in all different shapes for vibration damping, isolation or protection of wires and mechanics on moving or shaking units.

Hi,
something working really good is that kind of thing, just drill the lower plate and hang the gimbal from the upper one

http://www.gelmec.co.uk/Gelmec3DShockBox.html

Best regards,
Fabien
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 04:04 PM
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United Kingdom, Scotland, Edinburgh
Joined Nov 2010
1,839 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinderkram View Post
There are a lot of initiatives going on concerning motors.

I can see lots of guys blowing the dust off their CNC machines, grabbing some motors they had no use for, looking at their old direct drive servo gimbals that they hated so much.

The "BL gimbal movement" will turn into a wave that'll first wash away many commercial high-price offers - they simply get obsolete.
They will all jump the band waggon and the Chinese will kick in offer the controllers for 19,99


Yah, let's beat the boredom by collecting and sharing infos on potential motors, materials, vibration dampening, mounting and stuff.
Yep thats so true,

each time i fly z15 i get butterflies in my belly thinking if i crash i will be so dead.
with these i can fly all day no fear and if i crash no prod. just buy a next one or hack the board on to a next gimbal.

yep chines are cueing up with water dripping from their mouth waiting for the release,
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 04:10 PM
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Germany, NRW, Dusseldorf
Joined Jun 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricobrac View Post
Hi Jussi,

thanks a lot to you too ))

Best regards,

fabien
Bonsoir, Fabien!
Nice to have things sorted out.
Now we can concentrate on the things that matter.

Your "luxury" gimbal design is very appealing. Make sure to post a video once it swings in the air.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 04:14 PM
Begin with end in mind...
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Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
5,600 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricobrac View Post
Hi,

well, maybe it's time to put things back in order....
I am the owner of E-Copter.
Known as "Bricobrac" here on RCG since 2004, if you make a few searches you will know me a bit better
I have like you guys bought a license from Aleksey ( simpleBGC)
I am like you making a gimbal and reason i show only renderings ( i can post pictures of parts we are used to produce..) is to prevent beeing copied , you will note that the renderings are deliberately tweaked and with mechanics volunteer" bugs".

The real story is, i have been asking Aleksey if i could use his design, and in which conditions. We have agreed on a solution, and we already had with David made some renderings and concepts just for "esthetics" as we wold have made a gimbal anyway to fit the system whoever would have made it.

Then, on a french forum i saw the video and saw " Alexmos / Autoquad" and did put it on my website and wrote " Jussi video". I did not know, at that time, that Viacopter had an agreement also with Aleksey.

We have been invaded with reservations ( they are free of charge, we do not ask a penny, it allows us just to adjust the batch productions on the CNC milling machine and make sure we reserve time windows on them that is enough for producing, and calculate our costs of production ), and i've been a little bypassed by the number of messages.

I had then a message from Norbert and took the time to answer him, then contacted other related people who said it was ok to leave the video with mentions.

Not to say, if i had been afraid of showing viacopter video and do by the same way some promotion for them also, i would simply have removed the video, but i like to solve things clearly and i'm for peace on earth ( lol )

Some distributors have also contacted me as i do other products for some people, and i have said "yes", but mentioned that prices were not definitive, and that i did not allow ANY pre-order paying things ,, only email adress and reservation wish.

Kopterworx in Slovenia has been a bit fast on facebook and forget to put the mentions on the video, which irritated viacopter ( and it is normal).

Things have been solved since, and we had contact with Jussi, and in fact, we all work from the same platform ( simplebgc from Aleksey) and have each our offer, which are definitly not competition to each other, i would even say, they could be additional as they would cover from DIY to high range offers.

So i would ask you to forgive me if i made any mistake there, one more time if you check my history on RCG i have spent hours to help in Rc helis like the Dragonus and others, and if you search for " dragonus flybar cage " you can see already what kind of parts we wre able to design, and mill, long time ago. So renderings are not like the reality, reality will be much more sexy honestly, and i would only ask people to ask and make a judgment from acts , from what they will get in their hands, and reality instead than on rumors and feelings.

Now, i can say that from what seemed to start pretty negative has turned more than positive, as it allowed me to get in touch directly with Jussi so we can exchange our thought, and discover that like us, he has a licence from Aleksey and that we both work in the same kind of directions . So this has gone to some very positive discussion, i won't say more for the moment but what i wold like people to understand is :

- We are not into competition with Viacopter / Autoquad. We both are in the same boat: proposing something new and that generated lot of interest

- We work from same platform base , designed and realised by Aleksey ( Alexmos / SimpleBGC) with licencing ( we are not ripping off his work)

- We have the luck that such an idea and realisation came up from Europe and that for once, we can propose products with quality at a decent price ( whoever says that we are too expensive, i would just say look at the price of a basic gimbal with 2 servos on the internet and then get back to me and explain lol )

- THis comes exactly before the Chinese New Year, meaning, we can work like crazy all this month and have the time to release finalized products before cheap and weird copies pop up everywhere, letting us the time to establish, both of us, some quality reputation

- This is a fantastic business opportunity and all this is allowed by Aleksey. He is the one, he is the brain and the initiator. We are the hardware carriers.

- Demand is so high, that it will not be possible to fulfill everybody as he wish, and our diversity in offers and choices will allow people to choose and pick up in what please to them and what is available at the moment they want it.

We are no spammers or wind sellers. We have real production ability, going from Mazak 3 axis milling machines to Mazak Integrex 5 axis and Mazak Nexus Matrix 4 axis, all 2 and 2,5 D shapes are programmed in proprietary Mazatrol language and 3D patterns are made from solidworks with Mastercam and post processed on the Mazak machines. We mill aluminum 7075 real grade and what we show, we can do it check our website in " realisation", it's just a few pictures but they will tell you thousand times more than what i could write or try to explain.

Finaly, i did not accept to publish Norbert"s message because it was not fair and there was some things he could not know about us. I understand his reaction as he was true on the basics (this was a video from a " competitor" and i took the time to send a long email back to him, explained that i had put the name from the beginning over the video and that in the video on Youtube it was clearly written " Autoquad" and i did not get any answer, well honestly we have so much work and messages and things to solve and produce, i did not chase more and just did let it go, and i am sorry one more time.

Thing is, the video is still on our website, i have added tons of informations over it ( just check " brushless gimbal" section and look at the bottom of informations the video, i do not think we would leave it if we were ashamed of our abilities to produce what we talk about or had a problem with Jussi / Viacopter

The market is huge and there is enough for every taste and working in good relations with other people who have a common contact with yourselve is i think the way to go, this is the way i see it anyway.

Thanks for your tie and patience to read my horrible and long message and shall you ave any question, please send me a message on my website from the contact form, i read them overnight in general.

BEst regards, and thank you one more time to Jussi for the time he spent with me over the phone, this was really appreciated and i hope more positive things will come up. ow that things are cleared, we can all get back to work and make these damn gimbals systems come in peoples's hands ))

Best regards

Fabien
E-Copter
Stinky cheese country

Ok, so now that we have that cleared up, how about an "estimated" pricing for your gimbal.

Your design being so simple it should be relatively inexpensive.

Mike
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 04:32 PM
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This is all very exciting. I can't wait to see the finished product.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:13 PM
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Joined May 2007
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Kopterworx has updated their news page and apologized for it and asked me to convey their apology on this thread...consider it done and apology accepted from me

I would prefer the sUAS News people to also clean up their act - Sebastian already sent Gary Mortimer a mail about it, so it has been brought to their attention. The "article" remains there in its current form.

But to be honest I dont really expect anything from a "news" site about UAS systems that only mentions the Autoquad system in conjunction with Roberto Navonis Vbrain controller and has no mention of ESC32 at all. (no offense to Roberto, he is a friend).

I dont hope that anyone actually relies on that site for "news" about UAS systems....but IŽd happily give them a quick course in basic journalism, research-techniques, fact-checking and fair/balanced story selection and editing, should they so desire...

This is hopefully the last I will have to deal with this - basically its a waste of my time, but I felt it was important to set things straight. I apreciate the communication I have had with the involved people, and I consider the matter solved and closed!
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by power View Post
Ok, so now that we have that cleared up, how about an "estimated" pricing for your gimbal.

Your design being so simple it should be relatively inexpensive.

Mike
We have not yet set a total price for the complete gimbal since we dont have all the quotes in yet. It is gonna cost extra to have the custom motors made so we are aiming around 350E (with VAT) for our complete version. I believe Fabien said that he aimed for around the 500E mark. I think that both these estimations are correct for the products shown.

Bear in mind that these are estimations based on what we know currently - it may change in either direction, if something turns out to get more expensive or cheaper to produce.

Aleksey also needs to get payed, so there is gonna be a royalty for him on each sold unit.

The controller will ship with an encrypted and locked bootloader that allows users to download and use updates posted on simpleBGC.com. Should anyone desire to make their own SW they can get a version with no bootloader.

I am sure the OS purist will hate this, but with the recent developments with Hobbyking and other chinese producers cloning everything and leeching on community efforts, I respect and support that decision.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:43 PM
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This is a fantastically clever and very exciting development. I have funds set aside to buy a Zenmuse but will now put that on hold as I would much prefer to work with a less expensive and less proprietary system. Subscribed to this thread and like a kid counting the days till Christmas.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:49 PM
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Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JussiH View Post
We have not yet set a total price for the complete gimbal since we dont have all the quotes in yet. It is gonna cost extra to have the custom motors made so we are aiming around 350E (with VAT) for our complete version. I believe Fabien said that he aimed for around the 500E mark. I think that both these estimations are correct for the products shown.

Bear in mind that these are estimations based on what we know currently - it may change in either direction, if something turns out to get more expensive or cheaper to produce.

Aleksey also needs to get payed, so there is gonna be a royalty for him on each sold unit.

The controller will ship with an encrypted and locked bootloader that allows users to download and use updates posted on simpleBGC.com. Should anyone desire to make their own SW they can get a version with no bootloader.

I am sure the OS purist will hate this, but with the recent developments with Hobbyking and other chinese producers cloning everything and leeching on community efforts, I respect and support that decision.


Thanks, for the info.

I also agree with the locked bootloader. Nothing is safe out there.


Mike
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