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Old Feb 25, 2013, 01:24 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
In my mind is a flybarless rotor and convert the 120 degree swash to 90 degrees like was posted here below. Hankster brought this up a few pages back.

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=362141
Seems to be a heck of a lot more interest in our line of r/c helis over in helifreak, arrowshooter - think I got the original FP 450 concept from a post there.
Not sure whether to follow you down the FBL route. Remember you advising against it for park flying: still feel the same way?
Agree the FB does seem pretty bombproof/ safer now, for any public area. But adventure calls .
Cheers!
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 08:25 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
828 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Seems to be a heck of a lot more interest in our line of r/c helis over in helifreak, arrowshooter - think I got the original FP 450 concept from a post there.
Not sure whether to follow you down the FBL route. Remember you advising against it for park flying: still feel the same way?
Agree the FB does seem pretty bombproof/ safer now, for any public area. But adventure calls .
Cheers!
That's where I first picked up Hanksters conversion thread but havevn't spent enough time reading through all of the forums. I'll have to check it out.

I think the park flying is a personal choice since parks around here are not that big and there are usually kids somewhere. Just hate for something to hicup and a kid gets hurt. Right now I am really enjoying flying where I don't have to worry about any darn trees.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 08:53 AM
Goooo!!!! Get to da choppa!!!!
United States, NC, Albemarle
Joined Jan 2013
485 Posts
Quote:
That's where I first picked up Hanksters conversion thread but havevn't spent enough time reading through all of the forums. I'll have to check it out.
There are four or five great threads over there for FP conversions. It's where I realized my FP direct-drive Funcopter rotor system idea wasn't mine after all! LOL
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 10:30 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,756 Posts
arrowshooter and OldOz. Either of you tried this using a 450 flybar head and stock 450 blades?
I have my piece of junk $99.00 450 that I was thinking of trying it with to fly as fixed pitch.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 12:19 PM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Newark
Joined Feb 2013
328 Posts
90 Degree Swashplate

To: Arrowshooter in one of your post you mention using a 90 degree swashplate for the 450 DFC rotor head where did you see them?

I've only come across 90 d swashplate for a 3mm shaft. After looking over the rotor head that came with my 450 kit I see my one would need the 90 degree swash that would be the only way to make the 450 rotor head work. I was thinking at first why not just convert the rotor head that come with the 450 kit and only used the two linkage for a FP but see its not the simple and there not at 90 degree..

Thanks for the package it just arrive today. Along with a 5 other package maybe I have all the F45 rotor head parts to start this F45/450 mod.

Thanks again Stevr.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 12:34 PM
Sir Crashalot
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Murray, KY
Joined Mar 2007
224 Posts
I skimmed through the 21 pages in this thread, but not sure that I found it.

What are the pros and cons of using the F45 head vs. the Funcopter head? Not flybarless, mind you, but stockish heads.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 12:50 PM
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United States, FL, Hernando
Joined Sep 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWolf View Post
I skimmed through the 21 pages in this thread, but not sure that I found it.

What are the pros and cons of using the F45 head vs. the Funcopter head? Not flybarless, mind you, but stockish heads.
Money for one, and those stupid Z links on the FC, though the FC blades are much bigger/longer and the flybar is about indestructable.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 01:00 PM
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United States, NJ, Newark
Joined Feb 2013
328 Posts
Real Flight Simulator

I know this may not be the thread for this but because so many in this thread are into the FP F45 and 450 built maybe you can tell me your opion.

I have two simulator one is Clear View and just pickup up Real Flight at a show this pass weekend at a good discound $160 version 6.5 If one is able to handle flying cp heli in the simulator would this be your way of stepping up to flying cp veris flying FP and how close is using a simulator to flying the real cp heli ?

Anyone using the eighter of these two simulator ? Just curious.
PS: Notice that all the heli in the Real Flight are cp heli and there's only 1 FP in the programm.

Hope it was okay to post this here.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 01:29 PM
Eternal beginner
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France, Alsace, Strasbourg
Joined Jun 2012
635 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Thanks for the efforts, Bthirsk - can't visualize flying a heli that small outside. Heck, can't visualize flying one that small, period! But very interested in your observations.
Only wish I had the 20km/h winds to contend with. As stated, average here is 30 - 40+. The trick is often to get the helis in the air, before the wind blows them over . Seriously. But against this, we have the seaside, no ice/snow, and a lot of sunshine. Swings and roundabouts, I guess.
However, if anyone else (with 450 FB CP experience/competence) has thoughts on the ability to fly for 'fun' in - say - these 45kph winds, I'd appreciate the input. Just want to know if my personal goalposts are in any way realistic: or if I should stick with the heavily modded F45/450s, that I know now very well, and can.
Hello OldOz !
I'm flying my F45 (with the EH200 BL motor and Xtreme HoneyBee blades) since about 6 months and I'm now very comfortable with (but I can still become better, it just needs time).
I have no problems flying against 30 Kmh winds, even if it's a kind of "fight", and it asks the maximum of the F45 potential. (Needs just to being accustomed to pushing up throttle while letting the nose dive).

Since the beginning of this year I fly also two Master CPs (200 size).
The first flights were not easy, and lots of stress, it was the heli that controlled me !!
Now after about 70 flights, I BEGIN to be comfortable with the Master CP, and the fun has become bigger than the stress (there's still a long way to go). Actually the heli is doing what I want (well 95% of the time ) and I'm discovering the far superior potential of a CP heli. Of course it's more twitchy than the F45, but once you learned how it reacts to stick inputs, it is lots more precise and responsive than a FP heli.
The big advantage is of course that collective pitch and cyclic pitch are not depending from each other, this gives lots of new possibilities.
And therefore, flying in the wind is more easy than with the F45 (but, I repeat it, this is after 70 flights, it was absolutely not the case when I was a CP newbie)

To be honnest , the beginning with the CP heli was much more frustrating than I had tought, and after the first 3 or 4 flights (with 2 crashes ) I asked myself why I did the step to a CP heli, coming from the F45 wich is sooo easy to fly !
But now, I know that gradually the F45 will fly less and the Master CP (and also the V450D03 I allready bought and test-flew) will become more and more fun !

That said, we are all different, we have different ages (even with my "young" 51 years, I find it takes sooo long to increase my skills), so this is just my way I see the things...

And don't let us forget that the goal is having fun while flying, wether we fly with a coax, a FP or a CP !

Roland
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 02:52 PM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,756 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeNGun View Post
I know this may not be the thread for this but because so many in this thread are into the FP F45 and 450 built maybe you can tell me your opion.

I have two simulator one is Clear View and just pickup up Real Flight at a show this pass weekend at a good discound $160 version 6.5 If one is able to handle flying cp heli in the simulator would this be your way of stepping up to flying cp veris flying FP and how close is using a simulator to flying the real cp heli ?

Anyone using the eighter of these two simulator ? Just curious.
PS: Notice that all the heli in the Real Flight are cp heli and there's only 1 FP in the programm.

Hope it was okay to post this here.
I use clearview and Phoenix. Clearview is a good start, but it is easier than the real helis due to dificiencies in the physics. Phoenix is better in most cases, but also has some issues like piros. The helis, especially smaller ones, do not piro on the spot like they doe in Phoenix.
I just down loaded Heli-X and will try it in the next few days.
To answer your question, and sim is the best start you can make.
I'm sure real flight is a very good sim, I just don't have it.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 03:01 PM
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United States, FL, Hernando
Joined Sep 2012
1,460 Posts
I have Real Flight and its OK. Sims will teach you stick movement and such, but are never like the real thing.
I've seen guys that are great on a sim and cant get a heli off the ground.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 04:44 PM
Sir Crashalot
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Murray, KY
Joined Mar 2007
224 Posts
I agree.. The likelihood of any sim being able to match the exact movements and behaviour of models is slim.

That said, they can train you to react to general movements and get some muscle memory training down. Standard heli slides left, right cyclic. Nose in slides left, left cyclic. That will become second nature. Having the ability to put those movements to use on a live bird though will take practice.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 06:51 PM
Oh no!
Scarlet's Avatar
Wales(UK)
Joined Jul 2004
127 Posts
Oh dear.I've got so many projects on the go,I've forgotten what I'm doing.My wife is doing her nut with bits of helis all over the place,thats besides the planes and quadcopter.I'm not her most popular person at the mo.Anyway,I think my old HK450 will be receiving a F-45 head shortly.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 07:04 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
828 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeNGun View Post
To: Arrowshooter in one of your post you mention using a 90 degree swashplate for the 450 DFC rotor head where did you see them?

I've only come across 90 d swashplate for a 3mm shaft. After looking over the rotor head that came with my 450 kit I see my one would need the 90 degree swash that would be the only way to make the 450 rotor head work. I was thinking at first why not just convert the rotor head that come with the 450 kit and only used the two linkage for a FP but see its not the simple and there not at 90 degree..

Thanks for the package it just arrive today. Along with a 5 other package maybe I have all the F45 rotor head parts to start this F45/450 mod.

Thanks again Stevr.
Go to ebay and search for 450 swashplate. You will find it there and you are very welcome. Enjoy!
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 07:19 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollmops67 View Post
Hello OldOz !
I'm flying my F45 (with the EH200 BL motor and Xtreme HoneyBee blades) since about 6 months and I'm now very comfortable with (but I can still become better, it just needs time).
I have no problems flying against 30 Kmh winds, even if it's a kind of "fight", and it asks the maximum of the F45 potential. (Needs just to being accustomed to pushing up throttle while letting the nose dive).

Since the beginning of this year I fly also two Master CPs (200 size).
The first flights were not easy, and lots of stress, it was the heli that controlled me !!
Now after about 70 flights, I BEGIN to be comfortable with the Master CP, and the fun has become bigger than the stress (there's still a long way to go). Actually the heli is doing what I want (well 95% of the time ) and I'm discovering the far superior potential of a CP heli. Of course it's more twitchy than the F45, but once you learned how it reacts to stick inputs, it is lots more precise and responsive than a FP heli.
The big advantage is of course that collective pitch and cyclic pitch are not depending from each other, this gives lots of new possibilities.
And therefore, flying in the wind is more easy than with the F45 (but, I repeat it, this is after 70 flights, it was absolutely not the case when I was a CP newbie)

To be honnest , the beginning with the CP heli was much more frustrating than I had tought, and after the first 3 or 4 flights (with 2 crashes ) I asked myself why I did the step to a CP heli, coming from the F45 wich is sooo easy to fly !
But now, I know that gradually the F45 will fly less and the Master CP (and also the V450D03 I allready bought and test-flew) will become more and more fun !

That said, we are all different, we have different ages (even with my "young" 51 years, I find it takes sooo long to increase my skills), so this is just my way I see the things...

And don't let us forget that the goal is having fun while flying, wether we fly with a coax, a FP or a CP !

Roland
Great CP progress, Roland!

Yes, would have followed a similar instacrash learning curve but for Phoenix, especially as I started on a particularly fragile CP FB 450.
Of course a sim is not the same as actually flying a CP, but IMO a heck of a lot closer than any amount of F45 experience. (btw, prefer Phoenix to Real Flight - tried both).
And we seem to have reached roughly the same spot in the learning curve. I feel reasonably comfortable (probably 200+ CP flights now) in winds up to 30 km/h. In fact all the F45s sat on the shelf for a month or so: and I got up at 4/5am when the winds are usually in this range here.
However, it was the 40+ km/h (common in the afternoon) - and the aversion to such early rising! - that bought me back to the idea of building a big FP. With some degree of success, and the results posted in this thread.
In short, FP handling (in high wind) is mushy, far less precise: but far more forgiving than CP. Though this summary may well improve with Arrow's FBL R&D.
Totally agree with you on the 'age' thing, too. As I'm 20 years older, you have to move your goalposts in life that much closer! - which is the other reason I like the big FPs.
'Senior moment immunity' I'd call it. About once a week I'd have an unplanned landing, or collision with a goalpost, fencepost (or anything'post') or tree. With the FP, total costs so far: about $15. Same thing in 450 CP costs about that every crash.

I guess when you 'master' your 200 CP, you'll move on to something bigger. If so, will be even more interested to hear of your progress - particularly heli vs. wind .

In the meantime, agree with you yet again: the real goal is to have fun and enjoyment in our hobby!
All the best
John
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