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Old Feb 23, 2013, 09:47 AM
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United States, CA, Modesto
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OldOz is right on the mark. There are a number of ways that you can approach a FP450, all depending on how you are with tinkering. The F45/450 he started is a very rewarding begining. It is easy to fly and the rotor head is pretty much bullet proof. The Funcopter 450 conversion is also a very good one to do, but parts are a little more expensive. The next step is the FBL FP 450, which takes a little more thinking in setting up but is a fantastic flyer. I have only been doing the helicopter thing since August, but the FBL FP450 goes exactly where I want it to, and very quickly.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 11:14 AM
Goooo!!!! Get to da choppa!!!!
United States, NC, Albemarle
Joined Jan 2013
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Pulled the (small) trigger on the $29 HK450 kit today. Should be here by Wednesday...

Not sure yet whether I'll mod the frame to mount the Funcopter motor where the rotor gears normally go, or whether I'll just "belly mount" it like the FC normally does. Keeping the FC rotor head's flybar for now. FBL will come later, after I research some 3-axis gyros. Still looking for a good but cheap radio.

At least I'll have something to tinker with now!
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 02:43 PM
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United States, FL, Hernando
Joined Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by kpinnc View Post
Pulled the (small) trigger on the $29 HK450 kit today. Should be here by Wednesday...

Not sure yet whether I'll mod the frame to mount the Funcopter motor where the rotor gears normally go, or whether I'll just "belly mount" it like the FC normally does. Keeping the FC rotor head's flybar for now. FBL will come later, after I research some 3-axis gyros. Still looking for a good but cheap radio.

At least I'll have something to tinker with now!
Thats a good kit for the money, however you will want to upgrade the tail assy to the HK 450 v2 tail assy.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11530

I think it might be back ordered ? but well worth the wait.

Be sure to remove the idler pulley, it looks like the belt will hit the top bolt without it but it doesnt
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 05:01 PM
Goooo!!!! Get to da choppa!!!!
United States, NC, Albemarle
Joined Jan 2013
469 Posts
Quote:
Thats a good kit for the money, however you will want to upgrade the tail assy to the HK 450 v2 tail assy.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11530

I think it might be back ordered ? but well worth the wait.

Be sure to remove the idler pulley, it looks like the belt will hit the top bolt without it but it doesnt
The tail was the ONE thing I hesitated with on buying that kit. By the time I get this bird in the air they may have the V2 tails back in stock.

Thanks for the heads up!
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 06:01 AM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
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Originally Posted by War Horse View Post
Thats a good kit for the money, however you will want to upgrade the tail assy to the HK 450 v2 tail assy.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11530

I think it might be back ordered ? but well worth the wait.

Be sure to remove the idler pulley, it looks like the belt will hit the top bolt without it but it doesnt
I curious on the idler pulley comment as I may get one of these for a cheap clone I have with a plastic tail drive. Does the pulley give issues.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 06:55 AM
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BT, some times they dont track straight wearing the belt and pulley, the bearing will evenyually lock up anyway. Another reason is parasitic power draw.

Their just not needed, most of the new helis coming out dont even put then on anymore.

Just make sure you keep proper tension on the belt, as should be the case either way.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 07:29 AM
Brent 黑雁
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Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Food for thought indeed.
The actual wind recorded at the met station yesterday (measured IIRC on top of the hospital, so not far away at all as shown in the pic I took below) was 15 - 20 knots, gusting. Now the 3s FP450 was fun: and though I could possibly fly the CP in that wind - for me, anyway - it'd be no fun whatsoever. Due probably to oldmanitis, and a younger guy might just revel in the challenge and risks. Diff'rent strokes, I guess.
But a question to you in return, as a vastly more experienced CP man than I: would you really be pretty comfortable with a 450CP in the same 15-20 knots wind? - If so, gives me more incentive to keep putting the hard yards in. Feel I'm at a bit of a crossroads atm.
However I did whack the ground pretty hard - even with the FP - in one gust. Only 'damage' was a bent flybar. With my CP, it would have been at least a bent shaft, and a 1/2 hour or so rechecking the swash and pitch. Not a lot of fun there, either (though I can just about do it blindfolded now!)

But to your own question.
Imo, there's not an enormous difference in handling between my dumbed down 450CP in normal (set to FP), and my FP450 (with a variant of your your paddle/weight combo, and without expo).
For me, I guess the choice just gets down to the price you're prepared to pay for the 'why on earth did I do that' moments. More of them at my age .
On Your question regarding FP vs CP, this was a test I did yesterday.
These are two 100 size helis flying in 5km wind which is all the FP is capable of.
Both heli share 90% of the same parts and both are powered by the same motor. The SuperFP flew fine, but was hard to keep on a flight path and drifted very badly on turns. It was also much harder to maintain orientation to keep it upright.
The SuperCP was so stable, it requires very little cyclic input to maintain orientation and very little to properly do banked turns which are more precise and controlled. The breeze hardly effects it at all.
These are both flybarless helis.
Which did I feel more comfortable with, the CP but far. It required almost no effort to fly.
I used these two little guys as they are the same weight, same power, and share the same platform so it is a perfect comparison, apple to apples.
These helis both weigh in at a whopping 38grams.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 08:01 AM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
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Originally Posted by War Horse View Post
BT, some times they dont track straight wearing the belt and pulley, the bearing will evenyually lock up anyway. Another reason is parasitic power draw.

Their just not needed, most of the new helis coming out dont even put then on anymore.

Just make sure you keep proper tension on the belt, as should be the case either way.
Maybe that's why my 250 HK belt looked like hell after only 10 flights. I'll have to check that. The Kevlar belt I now have looks fine still.
Another reason to go shaft driven tail. They only break if you crash, although the new align models are pretty bullet proof. I saw a video of the new trex700 being used as a table saw cutting hardwood.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 08:12 AM
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I like the belt tail, Ive had to many striped TT gears from just a tail catching a bit of grass. Just my peference to go with all belts now.

Tho belts in a scale fuse make for a bit more work, I think that its really just a matter of which one your more comfortable with. Theres no right or wrong either way.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
Someone on another thread asked for a more detail parts list so here it is. I have purchased everything off eBay except for the Transmitter which I got from Wow. I donít think I forgot anything.

FBL FP 450 Parts List:
-Trex 450 Clone kit
Doesnít have to be a clone either.
-Align DFC Flybarless head assembly
On my first conversion I used the Hobbymate DFC Clone but I prefer the Align now as I have explained previously. There are others like Tarot that should work but they have the swashplate followers. These are probably stronger units then the DFC, but might not give you enough room for the spacers to allow complete swash movement. The DFC head conversions come with DFC Main Shafts that will not work on the 450SEV2. The Hobbymate comes with Thrust Bearings and most Align DFC conversion kits do not. Be sure you know what you are buying.
-Align DFC Feathering shaft H45021A
-90 degree swash plate
I just found out that if you are crafty enough, you can convert a 120 degree swash to 90.
-2 - Align 1-way Bearing shafts AGNH1130
This is the sleeve in the main gearís 1-way bearing and is used to make the swash spacers. I cut the lower spacer at 8mm and the upper one is 12mm and used blade grip thrust bearing spacers to take up the slack on the top swash spacer to get the 5 degree pitch. This way the length of the top spacer does not have to be exact and I have to option to go to 6 or 7 degrees pitch.
-Extra Main Shaft adjustable collar.
This is used below the bottom swash spacer for adjustment. You will need to grind flat spots on the main shaft for the grub screws.
-Longer aileron servo arm
-Suitable servo linkages

The Electronics that I am using:

-Walkera 2403 Tx
-Walkera 2437V Rx w/3-axis gyro
-Tail Servo Walkera and Hobby King digitals
-Hobbymate 3800kv motor w/13T pinion
-Hobbywing Pentium 40A ESC
-Tower Pro cyclic servos (current)
-ZOP Power 2s and 3s lipos
What would I have to change if I wanted to do a 500-550 size?
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 03:17 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
On Your question regarding FP vs CP, this was a test I did yesterday.
These are two 100 size helis flying in 5km wind which is all the FP is capable of.
Both heli share 90% of the same parts and both are powered by the same motor. The SuperFP flew fine, but was hard to keep on a flight path and drifted very badly on turns. It was also much harder to maintain orientation to keep it upright.
The SuperCP was so stable, it requires very little cyclic input to maintain orientation and very little to properly do banked turns which are more precise and controlled. The breeze hardly effects it at all.
These are both flybarless helis.
Which did I feel more comfortable with, the CP but far. It required almost no effort to fly.
I used these two little guys as they are the same weight, same power, and share the same platform so it is a perfect comparison, apple to apples.
These helis both weigh in at a whopping 38grams.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear on this question, BThirsk. Happens a bit at my age!
The FPs I (and Arrowshooter) fly are a long, long way removed from the original F45 or a 5km/h maximum. My best will fly - and I stress, for 'fun', and at the end of a long days work - in a 20 knot (gusting) wind. My 450 CP will not (at my current CP skill level, anyway).
The question was: could an 'average' CP pilot (not Szabo or Kammerer!) comfortably fly a 450 CP in a gusty 20 knot wind? - I've had a few replies on this one, which has led me to feel that it's certainly possible (of course) but would be a bit of a challenge, and not totally without risk. And wind perhaps more appropriate to 500 up class CP anyway.
Jury's still out so far though.
The question arises, because the prevailing winds in the two nearby public parks/ schoolgrounds where I've got to fly are 15 - 20 knots, except in the early mornings.
So have to decide whether to make the effort to improve my CP skills to accommodate the wind (if this is possible for an old guy), or keep tinkering with the F45/450 (which is there already). A toughie! - particularly as there are so many interesting FP ideas still untried. Arrow's FBL FP for example.
Regards
John.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 03:31 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by Scott in NH View Post
What would I have to change if I wanted to do a 500-550 size?
I fear you'd have to change to CP, or buy a machine shop (or at least a lathe/ milling machine).
The only '500' alternative I am working on has two (separate) FP rotors: but I just have never heard of any available FP 550 (up) hardware. Certainly, the F45 head is right at its limits on a 450 frame: and think even a funcopter would have problems on a 500.
Someone prove me wrong! (the 500 and up is the carrot that keeps me training in CP - and see above )
Cheers
John

A PS - most of the replies from CP pilots I had (to the question in my previous post) now flew 700s: and seemed to look on the CP 450s as 'learning toys' lol. Guess all things are relative! - but, having seen the big birds in flight now, can see the lure of going bigger.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 05:28 PM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear on this question, BThirsk. Happens a bit at my age!
The FPs I (and Arrowshooter) fly are a long, long way removed from the original F45 or a 5km/h maximum. My best will fly - and I stress, for 'fun', and at the end of a long days work - in a 20 knot (gusting) wind. My 450 CP will not (at my current CP skill level, anyway).
The question was: could an 'average' CP pilot (not Szabo or Kammerer!) comfortably fly a 450 CP in a gusty 20 knot wind? - I've had a few replies on this one, which has led me to feel that it's certainly possible (of course) but would be a bit of a challenge, and not totally without risk. And wind perhaps more appropriate to 500 up class CP anyway.
Jury's still out so far though.
The question arises, because the prevailing winds in the two nearby public parks/ schoolgrounds where I've got to fly are 15 - 20 knots, except in the early mornings.
So have to decide whether to make the effort to improve my CP skills to accommodate the wind (if this is possible for an old guy), or keep tinkering with the F45/450 (which is there already). A toughie! - particularly as there are so many interesting FP ideas still untried. Arrow's FBL FP for example.
Regards
John.
In my previous test, the CP total weight is 1/3 the weight of your battery, so yes it handles wind pretty well for the size.
I had out my 120 and my MasterCP this afternoon. Wind was 15 to 20 KM.
I flew both in circuits about 50 to 60 feet high with not problem and was not stressed when flying. I was flying both in ST1 which has 0 pitch a mid stick and negative below and 3D head speed. They were very easy it actually fly under control and not wind surf as we often have to do with the FP. When flying cross wind as I was doing large circles about 150 feet in diameter, it required very little cyclic to maintain direction. I might add I never once felt out of control.
I am not that good a flier and probably have less flying time than most of you, but I did a rigid training program with my minis to learn to fly in constant control in the house and in my shipping bay this winter. Now when I fly, I am comfortable in all orientations and that is the total difference than flying last summer. I have seen many of the guys fly the F45 and they all handle it as well as I can, so if I can do this, all of you can.
These are all flybarless helis which are far more precise than flybar, so that may make a big difference. Next weekend, if I am brave, I will try this with my HK250 which is still flybar. I also want to take out My V400 and give it a try.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 07:46 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
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Thanks for the efforts, Bthirsk - can't visualize flying a heli that small outside. Heck, can't visualize flying one that small, period! But very interested in your observations.
Only wish I had the 20km/h winds to contend with. As stated, average here is 30 - 40+. The trick is often to get the helis in the air, before the wind blows them over . Seriously. But against this, we have the seaside, no ice/snow, and a lot of sunshine. Swings and roundabouts, I guess.
However, if anyone else (with 450 FB CP experience/competence) has thoughts on the ability to fly for 'fun' in - say - these 45kph winds, I'd appreciate the input. Just want to know if my personal goalposts are in any way realistic: or if I should stick with the heavily modded F45/450s, that I know now very well, and can.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott in NH View Post
What would I have to change if I wanted to do a 500-550 size?
In my mind is a flybarless rotor and convert the 120 degree swash to 90 degrees like was posted here below. Hankster brought this up a few pages back.

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=362141
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