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Old Feb 05, 2013, 11:27 AM
jrb
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Edina, MN, USA
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As in a battery from a B777; or, A340.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 11:30 AM
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The Northeast Kingdom, Vermont
Joined Jun 2004
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Problem is, they wouldn't fit in the allotted space
The focus now is on the battery management systems, not the cells.
Hopefully the FAA will act immediately in approving a resumption of flight tests, as requested. That would go along way to getting to the bottom of the problem.
Pete
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 12:26 PM
KlonWarz
Joined Dec 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrb View Post
As in a battery from a B777; or, A340.
:-)
Trying to get an engineer to standardize would be an exercise in futility!
:-)

rc
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 05:09 AM
Official Old Git!
Hampshire, UK
Joined Sep 2000
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The great thing about standards... is that there are so many you can choose from...
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 07:02 AM
Stop scaring my donkey!
JohnathanSwift's Avatar
Greenland
Joined Mar 2012
6,224 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman Adlam View Post
The great thing about standards... is that there are so many you can choose from...
As they say at airbus, wee,wee.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 10:56 AM
Not THAT Ira
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Coupeville, Wa
Joined Jan 2006
4,722 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrb View Post
Wonder why they don't back to a NiXx based battery just to get flying again?
Because Chevron/Texaco has fought like cornered animals in international courts to keep large cell NiMH batteries out of production and sued the crap out of anyone who even thinks about using them.
They are waaay to easy to work with compared to LiPos and would pose a serious threat of simple and cheap electric cars being produced even in third world countries.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 02:25 PM
In Development Now
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Joined May 2005
444 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
So for your house:

Structure.
Water
Electricity
Gas
Sewer
Heater
Stove. (And I'm being generous calling a stove a "system").
Air conditioning
Computer
And in a house, anyone one system can fail and not bring down every other system and it can be repaired. The vast majority of the failures have no ill effects once identified and isolated. On a plane in operation, not so much.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 10:34 AM
Alarm Bells Continuing!
Big Foot 48's Avatar
Arizona
Joined Oct 2001
276 Posts
Airbus moves to avoid the issue:
Quote:
Airbus has started informing airlines that have ordered the new A350 that the new plane will have Nickel-Cadmium batteries, rather than lithium-ion batteries, the European plane maker told CNBC Thursday.

Airbus said the move is based entirely on reducing uncertainty in the program schedule -- not due to any safety concerns.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/airb...anes-1C8392066
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 06:21 PM
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North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/20/travel...Most+Recent%29

Quote:
Washington (CNN) -- Boeing will present a temporary plan to U.S. aviation safety officials this week aimed at getting its grounded 787 Dreamliners back in service.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 06:51 PM
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The Northeast Kingdom, Vermont
Joined Jun 2004
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This really is interesting. Maybe an explanation of why these batteries were failing

http://www.usnews.com/news/business/...ng-787-battery
Pete
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 09:43 PM
KlonWarz
Joined Dec 2012
454 Posts
So does it sound like crossed polarity even though a rectifier bridge was in place?
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 08:24 AM
Sweeper Nut
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Northridge So. Cal
Joined Apr 2007
624 Posts
Thanks for the update guy's. This is interesting stuff.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 09:48 AM
Will it ever Fly?
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United States, SD, Platte
Joined Nov 2011
422 Posts
AC Batteries

These are "NiCad" batteries, made up of individual plastic cells. Placed in a metal container.
I used to work in a place that "conditioned" these batteries. The conditioning was to make each cell the same. (Kind of what you do by balancing your Lypos).
If one cell gets more charged, it burns through the side and into another cell. Then the two cell short and draw a lot of power from the other cells and Puff you have a chemical fire.
I had about one to two a month do that while on the conditioning table.
I would grab it and run out the door and run the water hose on it. With full stream it would just contain the fire, but not put it out until all the energy was spent.
Nasty strange smell, I still can walk into a building hours afterward and tell if one has caught fire.
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Old Mar 18, 2013, 08:02 AM
jrb
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Edina, MN, USA
Joined Oct 1999
11,328 Posts
Boeing to patch up 787 batteries

As the world watches and waits for Boeing’s revolutionary Dreamliner to soar into the skies again (no pressure), the latest word from the manufacturer on its titanic struggle with lithium-ion (Li-ion) battery technology is a thesis-like statement which details “a comprehensive set of safety improvements”.

The changes Boeing will make to the Li-ion technology, under an FAA-approved plan, are indeed wide-ranging and will include alterations to the battery itself, the battery charging unit and the battery installation, plus adjustments to production and operating processes.

"Passengers can be assured that we have completed a thorough review of the battery system and made numerous improvements that we believe will make it a safer, more reliable battery system,” commented Ray Conner, president and CEO, Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

In its statement of March 14, 2013, Boeing eagerly listed the specific improvements it will introduce: enhanced production standards and tests to reduce the possibility of variation in the individual cells and the overall battery; a narrowing of the acceptable level of charge for the battery – both a decrease in the highest permissible charge and an increase in the lower level allowed for discharge; and a softening of the charging cycle to lighten the stress on the battery during charging. But it doesn’t stop there -

Boeing will also introduce: enhanced insulation of the battery cells from each other and from the battery box; an upgrade of the wire sleeving and wiring inside the battery for greater resistance to heat and chafing; new fasteners attaching the metallic bars between the battery cells which will include a locking mechanism; and changes to the battery case including small holes which will allow a failed battery to vent with less impact to other parts of the battery. But it doesn’t stop there -

Boeing will also introduce: a stainless steel enclosure which will isolate the battery from the rest of the gear in the electronic equipment bays and prevent fire; and new titanium fixtures in the electronics equipment bays to ensure that the housing is properly supported.

Great, but - what exactly was the problem with the batteries?

On this point, Boeing merely says - in rather circular fashion - that the enhancements to the battery system address “causal factors” identified by its technical team as “possible causes of battery failure”. These findings have apparently been verified by an independent cross-section of external Li-ion experts.

But are “enhancements” a solution? On the one hand, the proposed battery adjustments sound reassuringly comprehensive - but on the other hand, without a definitive diagnosis of the problem afflicting Boeing’s wounded flagship they could look a lot like sticking plasters.

Joanne Perry, Online Editor, UBM Aviation
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Old Mar 24, 2013, 10:10 PM
Culper Junior
eastern pa
Joined Feb 2007
2,088 Posts
Are these airplanes still grounded???
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