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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:22 PM
KlonWarz
Joined Dec 2012
455 Posts
Yes they are!
There's a lot of mortgages on the line here...

Airbus just voiced concern, and was courteous enough to mention they use similar systems.
Yet it was Boeing that grabbed the headlines...

Then we could factor in the public view of peripheral statements included in the story, as presented... I read where a 787 in flite has onboard systems that consume an equivalent amount of electricity to provide for 400 homes. ..so 200 people can get to a destination quickly.

Seems to me there will be significant changes coming down the pike...

Interesting times we live in.
rc
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:29 PM
Stop scaring my donkey!
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T'was both the best of times and the worst of times....
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 02:28 PM
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The Northeast Kingdom, Vermont
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Since no airliner draws power form the "grid", and the electricity used is generated on board as a byproduct of running the two engines, and that the 787 will whisk those 200+ passengers to their destination on as much as 20% less fuel. I don't think that's an issue
Having a large twin with twice as many generators as its predecessor, gives an unprecedented level of redundancy to the critical power to the flight systems.
Pete
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:01 PM
KlonWarz
Joined Dec 2012
455 Posts
Pete, I think it is an issue... It can not be denied that public perception of safety issues are critical when a venture conducts public transport, for hire, to make profit.

Let's try it this way... :-)

I have heard that snow in the Northeast Kingdom is FAR superior to that which falls here in my home state on the left coast.
Just minutes ago the radio news made me aware of extremely low temps in the midwest...
How do you think the people with huge energy bills trying to keep warm are going to view those who capriciously wisk from one side of the country to the other to take advantage of the Best snow-skiing, dumping tons of chem trails into the atmosphere even though it may be a more economical to operate jet than the prior version?
Those tons of fuel would have served to keep people warm.
The public is becoming more conscious of energy matters.
I can't get a plastic bag to put my groceries in, when I leave the market! They've been banned! ...public perception...

Don't know about you, but I can remember fuel costing a quarter a gallon...
:-(
rc
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:17 PM
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The Northeast Kingdom, Vermont
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Do I detect a whiff of class warfare here???
Don't go there!!!!:
Why anybody chooses to fly, drive or ride the train is their business, and their business only!! Nobody's going cold because there's not enough oil to go around
Pete
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:15 PM
KlonWarz
Joined Dec 2012
455 Posts
ok Pete..:-) probably best to drop this aspect of the end result...

but can I say just one more thing, and I'll shuddup???

I watched a youtube vid a year ago by a Canadian named Jeff Rubin who said,"We're NOT running out of oil. There's oil in Alaska, off the coast of Brazil, in the Alberta tar sands, and in the Green River formation. Plenty. What we are running out of is oil that you can afford."

I think people will freeze to death because they can't afford their heating bill.
Well, it's happened before!

OK, I'm done beatin' that horse!

Best
rc
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 07:11 AM
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That's what nuclear fission is for.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 07:18 AM
Stop scaring my donkey!
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Quote:
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That's what nuclear fission is for.
Doh!
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 06:06 AM
jrb
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Edina, MN, USA
Joined Oct 1999
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NTSB finds short-circuiting in 787 battery

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has confirmed that the lithium-ion battery onboard the JAL 787 aircraft which caught fire on January 7 showed signs of short-circuiting and ‘thermal runaway’, a chemical reaction which causes temperature to increase exponentially. However, the NTSB said it was far from confirming the cause of the fire. Investigators will continue to look for anything “unusual” about the battery, but answers are not forthcoming as the battery’s monitoring unit, which records inconsistencies, was severely damaged. The board also found that the battery charger showed a failure but that such damaged was expected due to the fire. “We are early in our investigation, we have a lot of activities to undertake,'” Deborah Hersman, NTSB’s chairman said in a news conference, according to Reuters. “This is an unprecedented event. We are very concerned. We do not expect to see fire events on board aircraft. This is a very serious air safety concern.”
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 07:02 AM
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Backwoods Alabama
Joined May 2000
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So this is a problem with Lipos going flambeau on an airplane? So what, we e-modellers have been dealing with that for years. Too bad the FAA has alienated the RC community, we could help.

Seriously, "lithium" batteries are attractive because they have good power density and light weight, but have the problem with thermal runaway if the output-charging are not monitored. As "we all know". It'll be a matter of monitoring output-input-temperatures and setting limits. They may have tried to push the envelope too far, but they seem to have a handle on the whys and wherefors...

Dang, amazing what can be learnt playing with toy aeroplanes. no?

--Bill
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 07:04 AM
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No.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
They may have tried to push the envelope too far, but they seem to have a handle on the whys and wherefors...
Another thing mentioned in some of the media coverage was the lack of a monitoring/warning system for the aircrew.

Additionally, the FAA was (supposedly) concerned about the batteries and worked with Boeing to develop "mitigations" (I am not familiar with what these mitigations are) ... evidently the FAA has some serious concerns that the mitigations failed.

It will be interesting to read the NTSB report when it is published.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 07:41 AM
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How many pressurization cycles had that battery been through? That's one thing modelers dont have to consider. It's also the oldest problem known to cause problems in pressurized airplanes. The Comet was a fine design that couldnt handle being pressurized and depressurized too many times before it went pop.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 07:43 AM
Stop scaring my donkey!
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Originally Posted by HELModels View Post
How many pressurization cycles had that battery been through? That's one thing modelers dont have to consider. It's also the oldest problem known to cause problems in pressurized airplanes. The Comet was a fine design that couldnt handle being pressurized and depressurized too many times before it went pop.
Apples and oranges.

The Comet fuse, a pressure vessel, bore the stress, whereas here, the battery remains more or less at a constant pressure-that is the nature of, and reason for putting "things" inside a pressure vessel..
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnathanSwift View Post
Apples and oranges.

The Comet fuse, a pressure vessel, bore the stress, whereas here, the battery remains more or less at a constant pressure-that is the nature of, and reason for putting "things" inside a pressure vessel..
OK, just wondering if it had been subjected to a large enough change in atmosphere to cause some sort of delamination or something.

Point is there is still a change in atmospheric pressure, larger than what model planes go through typically. A jet liner takes off at sea level some place and then the cabin is set at something that saves fuel and doesnt cause hypoxia.

As a private pilot, I flew legally to somewhere around 10,000 feet depending on direction. On a few occasions I had packaged food that would blow up like a balloon. I know this is the unpressurized result of altitude and to think that a pressurized airliner keeps the cabin at sea level is wrong, so it isnt so easily dismissed in my opinion.
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Last edited by HELModels; Jan 25, 2013 at 08:08 AM.
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