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Old Jan 16, 2013, 10:52 PM
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United States, CA, Oak View
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Help!
how to do inverted flight

Hey guys iam new to 3D helis and i have the blade mcpx v2 and i can fly it just not inverted i have plenty of experience on the msr , 120sr and mcx and i need some tips to keep it stable in inverted flight
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 11:02 PM
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Just remeber that Down it Up, and Up is Expensive!

Seriously though practice, practice, practice.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 11:06 PM
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Get a simulator.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 11:39 AM
Need More PURPLE !!
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Work on your stationary flips before you go inverted. Doing 4-5 stationary flips in the very same airspace is the best practice -IMO- of doing Spot on inverts, And like said always remember down is up and up is down. Getting to know your sticks And heli in doing this will be a huge help .
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:42 PM
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Master this mind trick as early as you can, it can be applied as soon as you start to fly and will help you progress into more complicated maneuvers as you are ready.

Don't think of your elevator/cyclic as up or down or forward or backward. Instead think of it as pulling the nose of the canopy toward the blades or pushing the nose of the canopy toward the skids. This will never change regardless of orientation. Using this mind trick can be helpful with nose in hovering, side in hovering, inverted flight, piroetting maneuers, etc etc...
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:17 PM
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Get phoenix rc before going 3d in real life trust me
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:59 PM
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thanks for the tips
I have all ways wonderd about simulators are the close to the real thing
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 08:24 PM
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They're great for learning the general motions, just don't expect real helicopters to fly exactly the same way. For example, you'll learn that a barrel roll requires you to stay level and at zero pitch so you're essentially sliding across the air with just momentum to avoid turning it into a spiral. But your real helicopter may not be as perfectly balanced as the sim and end up nose diving into the ground.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronredbaron View Post
Master this mind trick as early as you can, it can be applied as soon as you start to fly and will help you progress into more complicated maneuvers as you are ready.

Don't think of your elevator/cyclic as up or down or forward or backward. Instead think of it as pulling the nose of the canopy toward the blades or pushing the nose of the canopy toward the skids. This will never change regardless of orientation. Using this mind trick can be helpful with nose in hovering, side in hovering, inverted flight, piroetting maneuers, etc etc...
I have always wondered if pros fly this way or if they just react based on instinct. Do they always look a the tail or nose, or maybe reverse depending on the orientation of the heli, etc?

Inquiring minds want to know. I have never seen an interview of explanation from an an actual high level pilot. Maybe they all do it differently, I don't know.

It's like one of those "secret sauce" things that the really good pilots never talk about. Maybe they don't even recognize that it exists themselves.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LittleMo View Post
I have always wondered if pros fly this way or if they just react based on instinct. Do they always look a the tail or nose, or maybe reverse depending on the orientation of the heli, etc?
I suspect it is one thing that get so automatic that they do not even think about it. Like breathing and walking.

In answer to the threads original question. Learn in a sim. Far less expensive.

Some when learning inverted flip end over end, some roll sideways. Either is good. Practice bail-out manouver first, invert hold for a sec and heaps of corrective, uninvert, get used to inver and uninvert speed. Next learn good collective management (prevent putting heli into the deck), invert, try stop as close to level as possible, manage height, then un-invert. Lastly work on getting the heli to stay infront of you (collective and yaw).

Make it short flights (6 mins or less, with 1 min breaks). Only do 1 simulator 30 min (5 x 6min flights) session each half day at most, every 2 days at least. Your brain will learn faster with the gaps and repetition.

Dont forget to practice your upright orientations, clircles and 8s.

Remember, what you practice in the sim, you will do instinctively when you try for real.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosmaker159 View Post
Hey guys iam new to 3D helis and i have the blade mcpx v2 and i can fly it just not inverted i have plenty of experience on the msr , 120sr and mcx and i need some tips to keep it stable in inverted flight
With cyclic (elevator), just remember that forward always tries to push the nose of the canopy away from the rotor disk and vice versa.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 08:45 PM
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lol i like what "1320fastback", said Down it Up, and Up is Expensive!....hahah its so tru i was once in your shoes like every one else said...GET A simulator.... itll help soooooo much you have know idea. Its almost like if you want to take heli flying to the next level...and do tricks then invest in a simulator.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleMo View Post
I have always wondered if pros fly this way or if they just react based on instinct. Do they always look a the tail or nose, or maybe reverse depending on the orientation of the heli, etc?

Inquiring minds want to know. I have never seen an interview of explanation from an an actual high level pilot. Maybe they all do it differently, I don't know.

It's like one of those "secret sauce" things that the really good pilots never talk about. Maybe they don't even recognize that it exists themselves.
In another group of forums I hang out, they call it muscle memory. You're training to muscles/fingers/hands to the movements required to fly in the various orientation so that you don't think about. They say that each person is different as to when it will suddenly click and the muscles just do it automatically and you don't have to think about it any more. Mine just clicked this past week for nose in hovering. Now I have to get left nose-in and right nose-in to click. :-)

Basically I was told to watch the rotor and if starts moving in the direction you don't want it to go, apply opposite stick movement. That idea worked for me. I apply the same idea for which way the nose is going. Not sure yet what I will be do for the up/down part on the collective when I invert. That one will get a lot of sim practice before I do that one for real. Make sure my muscle memory is working very well.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:36 PM
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Yeah, I know about the muscle memory but I'm wondering what they are looking at for orientation. Do they always look at the nose, tail, or change what they're looking at depending on which way the heli is moving/facing, etc.

I mean muscle memory or not you have to be looking at something to determine the orientation. I'm just wondering if the pros always look at the same thing all the time or not.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:27 PM
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>>I'm wondering what they are looking at for orientation
can tell you how it looks through my eyes (not necessarily the same for everybody else out there).

Most of the time, you see the "broomstick", the silhouette of canopy and tail. There is ambiguity - you cannot directly tell whether it's this way or the other. But you know how it got there, so you know where it's going.
Once you've learned piro flying, you see the spinning broomstick (means: you hit rudder if you've "lost it"). And here, one quick look is enough, reflexes kick in to make it ground-repellent and eventually the rest of the brain catches up.

But, piro flying is a really tough nut to crack. The sky is the limit.

For starters:
- look at the skids: They tell you, whether it's leaning towards you or away from you
- learn to hover at any point in the sky and at any angle. Eliminate all the "blank spots" on your mental map. If there is any direction that is particularly difficult, practise it. If you want to improve, it's always an uphill battle.
- practise in the sim, fly on a background with bad contrast (glare).
- You cannot rely on the rotor disc for guidance, so turn it off in the sim. If the sky is overcast, it disappears completely. No amount of holo-stickers can fix this.

And, finally
stop any kind of tail-in flying. Force yourself to point the heli to a better direction, whatever you do. Tail-in is as good as shouting "hey-ho look at me I'm a beginner". It's also a waste of good flying time. So why do it. Work on it.
Exceptions are landings, where I want to see where the tail rotor goes.
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