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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:49 PM
Balsa Lover
gupi's Avatar
Vienna, Austria
Joined Jul 2010
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It seems like Easybuiltmodels stocks Esaki tissue. I had very good results with checkered Esaki and it's very lightweight. Maybe you should check the white variant (my local hobby shop doesn't stock white Esaki, so i can't tell). Just stay away from the silver colored - it doesn't shrink at all. The Guillow's tissue that comes with their kits shrinks nicely, too.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:54 PM
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USA, FL, Tampa
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Thanks gupi.
I do have esaki tissue but I would think it will get very translucent once doped and the print will pretty much disappear. I did buy a couple of sheets of the silver even knowing it doesn't shrink. I might use it for something someday....
It's looking more like I'm going to end up using Guillows tissue.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:44 AM
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United Kingdom, England, East Riding of Yorkshire
Joined Jan 2011
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Hi Glenn – Great picture! Did the model fly well? I used the Easybuilt tissue on my first Hampden build – I used the glue stick method, but applied the tissue damp, it dried over night and came out taught, unfortunately I used Butyrate dope (thinned 50/50) which over time has completely warped the flying surfaces – I now used nitrate dope only, but it is not easy to find these days – I think we should go back to black and white!
Best
Charles
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:53 AM
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Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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Glenn,
Such good taste for one so young. At that time I was deep into wet and smelly control line. Probably it would have been the Veron Nipper or Mercury Wasp in 1965. I'd have been 13 at the time. Must make us of a similar age. I, however, still had to learn that noisy and fast isn't necessarily good.

Pete
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:06 AM
Slip the surly bonds...
Sopwith Mike's Avatar
Christchurch,England
Joined Aug 2004
2,660 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PETERRAKE View Post
water resistant.

One method I saw, and tried, for sealing printed tissue (on a foam model) was to use the spray fixative artists use for pastel drawings. Although the model was a disaster, the technique seems to work well. 3 or 4 light coats gave it a nice doped type sheen.

Pete
Hi Pete,

The spray fixative does work well on pastel shading, so it's worth a try on printed tissue.

Mike
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 10:20 AM
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USA, FL, Tampa
Joined Jul 2002
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Charles,
Did it fly well?
I don't really remember but I do recall it was painted with Fokker Red Aerogloss dope and must have weighed a ton!
I built another test frame last night to test the easybuilt tissue.

Pete,
When I was 13 I was doing the same, oily and noisy control line, stunt and combat.
Over here it was Ringmasters and Fox 35's for stunt and Lil Satan's and Cox 049''s for 1/2A combat!
My prize possession was the Aeromodeller subscription I got every year for my birthday! I loved that magazine and built a lot of models from the free plans. I did hate that awful pink paper they printed them on!
Glenn
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 11:08 AM
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Last night I decided to just coat the slightly loose tissue on the test piece just to see what happens.

I grabbed a bottle of Aerogloss and when I opened it, found the lid was loose! The stuff was thick as honey. I thinned it to about what 50/50 would be and coated the bottom side of the piece.
Once that dried, I sprayed the top side with the automotive lacquer. One thing I did notice about the tissue is it doesn't seem to absorb the coating, it just sits on the surface. Even the thinned dope didn't penetrate much.
After drying for 15 minutes or so, the tissue was still limp, no evidence of tautening at all.

Over the course of the evening, the bottom got 3 coats of dope. It didn't have much of a gloss to it at all.
The top side received 2 coats of auto lacquer and has a high gloss.
Tissue is STILL limp... The good news is the printed graphics still look good.
I got disgusted with the whole affair and just left it sitting out in the shop while I ponder what to do next.

A couple of hours later I went out to the shop for something else and just for grins I checked the test piece.
Much to my surprise, the tissue had tightened up some! On both sides!!! Still not what I would call tight enough, but acceptable.

I brought it in the house to see if it goes limp like before. On a previous test the tissue was tight when I brought it in the house and went limp after 12 or so hours. When I went to bed it was still tight, but I didn't it check this morning before I left for work.

These are interesting results and I think further testing is needed. I was surprised to find the auto lacquer and the Aerogloss seem to have the same shrink. The lacquer as it comes out of the spray can is too thick to penetrate the tissue and it needs to be thinned a lot more. It looks like it takes at least an hour after drying to the touch for it to shrink.

I think if the tissue was a bit tighter before the coating was applied, the auto lacquer might just work.
A new test frame was built to try the easybuilt tissue next.
Glenn
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:49 PM
The "pro" in procrastination
Steve85's Avatar
Canada, ON, Kingston
Joined Mar 2004
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Hey Glenn,

I'm just reading about your trials and tribulations with printed tissue. I had similar issues with a Rumpler I built here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=968198&page=2

I found the best way to proceed was to pre-shrink the tissue in a frame, print it, apply to the model using glue stick, and then do final tightening by wiping a cotton ball moistened in rubbing alcohol to the applied tissue. A couple of lightly misted coats of Krylon clear finished it off. The thing with rubbing alcohol is that there's usually 25-40% water in it, so I found that if I sprayed it on the printed tissue, the water had time to make the ink run. For some reason, the same alcohol wiped on sparingly with a cotton ball didn't.

I never tired it, but I'm willing to bet that a coat or two of thinned nitrate dope brushed on wouldn't make the ink run and would do the final tightening and protective coat just as well.


Steve
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 02:46 PM
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I did try lightly wetting with a cotton ball and alcohol and the ink bled. I could snag some 90% IPA from work and try that, but honestly I've had just about enough of this. I'm getting close though and I think the problem might be more the tissue itself.
Glenn
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:35 PM
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After resting for 24 hrs in the house the tissue is still as tight as it was last night. This is good news. The gift tissue is a bit weak, but seems usable. Maybe it will stiffen up some after a couple of more coats of clear.
Glenn
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 07:43 AM
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PatricMichigan's Avatar
United States, MI, Hillsdale
Joined Apr 2008
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Very good point- I've not tried the Deluxe stuff over printed tissue. Acutally, never pre-printed any tissue so this is quite interested.
Any idea how much weight has been added with the coats of clear?
Patric
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 10:35 AM
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I didn't weigh the piece before and after. I use two coats of dope on all my tissue covered models as a sealer/base for the color coat. Then decals are applied and a shot of clear WBPU over that. Might not be the lightest solution, but it is durable and can withstand our wide humidity variations and trips into the wet grass.
Glenn
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 09:40 AM
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Looks like I’m going to give up on the printed tissue covering on the Camel for a number of reasons.

Biggest reason is once doped, the tissue gets too translucent and really needs a white base. On a model this small it would add too much weight to cover first in white solite then tissue onto that.

Second reason, the gift wrap tissue I printed on is pretty much useless for a model this size. It would work fine on a peanut scale model because it doesn’t shrink much and is very thin. I can’t get the crap to shrink the way I want it too.

Third is the neither the lacquer dope substitutes nor good old Aerogloss will shrink the crappy tissue. It’s like it shrinks some and looks tight, then after a couple of days it goes limp. This is the problem with my Stuka and it annoys the heck out of me.

A while back a guy at the field gave me a box of tissue. Last night I pulled out a sheet and covered the test frame. Water shrunk and it drew up nice and tight. Took it out to the shop and gave it a coat of thinned Rustoleum Automotive lacquer. It was late and I went to bed before the lacquer dried.
The thinner I used is a retarding thinner and it takes a while for the lacquer to dry. We’ll see the results tonight. Maybe I’ll try regular lacquer thinner to speed the drying time. Or just use Aerogloss and get it over with…

One last reason to throw in the towel, I’ve spent WAY too much time on this. Building season is coming to an end and all I’ve done is screw with this model. I have other stuff to do and want to get this one off my bench!

Looks like it will be easybuilt tissue, dope and MM acryl color with ink jet printed decals.
Glenn
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 10:31 AM
MPP
In Unusual Attitude Recovery
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Danbury CT (DXR)
Joined Oct 2005
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Sorry Glenn, wasn't with out a valiant effort. I think your finishing skills are more than par with the printed stuff. Maybe a depron bird in the future, those guys seem to have a good medium for the printed tissue.

Anyway look forward to your Camel.

Best,

M
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 11:03 AM
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glewis's Avatar
USA, FL, Tampa
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Thanks man.
Yeah, tissue over thin depron seems to be the way to go.

I'm thinking using better tissue might work but honestly, I'm over it at this stage. I have stripped and recovered one test frame 5 times now then built a second frame and it's been covered three times.... Add to this the effort of trying to find a dope substitute that goes back to my FW 190 build.
I have had enough experimenting for a while

I haven't given up on this completely though, just it's time to move on with this model and get it finished.
Now that I know what doesn't work....
I have spent two weeks trying and I could have finished the model long ago..

Glenn
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