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Old Jan 22, 2013, 05:44 AM
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Thanks for the steam suggestion Pete, I'll experiment with that method too.
Think today I'll pick up a can of spray Minwax lacquer and try that as well. Maybe I can do this in one experiment, cover a frame and spray a light coat of the lacquer on one side to fix the ink. Mist with water and see what happens. The other side I could leave dry and try the steam method.
Maybe a combo, lacquer and steam. That might reduce the risk of the ink bleeding.

I hear you on the cheap ink cartridges. I have tried refilling my own with limited success. Then I started using commercially refilled ones and had worse luck with those than with filling my own. Now I just pay the outrageous HP prices but I get cartridges that work and have quality ink. it's still not waterproof though....

Glenn
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 12:55 PM
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>Now I just pay the outrageous HP prices but I get cartridges that work and have quality ink. it's still not waterproof though....
I've been using and lauding this laser printer for the last year in the Indoor and Micro forum where I "hang out". The laser output, of course, is waterproof, but since I use my graphics on foam, I've never tried shrinking. I have, however, used Minwax to apply laser printed tissue decals to foam, the results being that the white tissue becomes transparent, eliminating the carrier film effect, and there's no shrinking.

The printer I linked to above is the absolute best deal one can find for a good quality color laser printer. It's very small for a laser, and the only downside (to me) is that the output is limited to a maximum of 8.5 x 14 in (legal).

The unbelievable low price even includes shipping! I bought two when the price was down to $84 (vice the current $89).

Gene K
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:09 PM
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hey very cool printer there, that might be a great printer for decals for me. Do you know where to get cheap toner for it?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:16 PM
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Do you know where to get cheap toner for it?
Shop Google for the latest deals when you need them, for example: http://www.go4supply.com/advanced_se...FQWnnQod0xQAFg

Gene K
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:25 PM
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Ahh ok thats great, thanks for the help!

Glenn, lets see some pics soon!
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 04:02 PM
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Interesting printer. LED printer? Laser class? Humm, might be something new I need to research.
Yeah, I'm sort of falling behind on the pics. I'll fix that soon.

Glenn
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 05:30 PM
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So it uses a LED scanner instead of a laser and spinning mirrors. Cool!
You print foam in it and the fuser roller doesn't melt the foam? Interesting.
Glenn
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 07:25 PM
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You print foam in it and the fuser roller doesn't melt the foam?
No, no, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First, almost any foam, including "Durobatic" thickness, will not be pulled into the printer; and second, the foam would definitely melt in the fuser unit.

I mount tissue onto a plain paper carrier and run it through the laser. Then peel and apply to Depron. One of the threads that Pete and I have fully describes the process.

Your Camel is looking great.

Gene K
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 07:35 PM
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Oh,,, duh! Printed tissue on foam.
Can't you ink jet print on foam after a coat of ink-aid? That would have to be pulled through the printer. Maybe I'm missing something here.
I built Paul Bradley's Starship Enterprise and used his tissue graphics on it. Was a PITA to get it stuck to the foam but it looks pretty cool!
Glenn
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 08:28 PM
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Can't you ink jet print on foam after a coat of ink-aid?
Sure ... providing you can find a printer with a near straight through paper path and is capable of thicker than normal material ... and you have the patience to prepare the foam with a smooth layer of Inkaid/digital ground ... and you have the skill to align graphics perfectly as for printing the top and bottom of wings or sides of rudders, etc. ... and build so perfectly that no sanding is required .... and I totally gave up after giving it a good faith effort. I sent all my accumulated direct-to-foam-printing equipment and supplies to Pete.

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That would have to be pulled through the printer. Maybe I'm missing something here.
Not sure what you're suggesting/asking/telling.

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... was a PITA to get [the tissue] stuck to the foam but it looks pretty cool!
A little practice goes a long way, I guess. Spray on adhesive works great for me.

Obviously I'm really looking forward to what you come up with in this build as I'll be following your lead to cover some stick & tissue kits I have.

Gene K
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 05:42 AM
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Just thinking about going through all effort makes my head hurt. I'll stick with my airbrush...
My problem was getting the tissue to stick to the foam. Tried glue stick and the tissue came off as soon as the model got damp. Another problem with the glue stick is one of the ingredients is sucrose and cockroaches love the stuff.... I peeled the tissue off and cleaned the model then applied spray adhesive. The tissue was then ironed onto the foam and it stuck ok but the edges are peeling up. I must have done something wrong like maybe I didn't get all the glue stick off. Oh well, it was an experiment anyway.

Didn't get to the tissue printing last night. Took the above pics and posted them then had family things to do.
Glenn
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:10 AM
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Glenn,

Sorry to be off topic (again) - last comment about printing/applying tissue:

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... then applied spray adhesive. The tissue was then ironed onto the foam and it stuck ok but the edges are peeling up.
There's absolutely no need to iron the tissue onto the foam! Spray the adhesive onto the foam and/or tissue, then carefully position the tissue at an edge and smooth it on a little at a time starting at mid point, pressing out wrinkles as you go. Keep the unpressed tissue off the foam by holding the piece upside down to let the tissue flop, or (rightside up) slide a piece of wax paper over the foam and withdraw it as the tissue is spread onto the foam, or carefully hold the unmounted tissue off the foam as you press, etc, etc. Lots of ways to do it.

For glue stick, I use UHU Stic - good for "sticing" down any loose edges, among other things. Goes on pink and turns clear as it dries.

Gene
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:57 AM
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Tried all of those methods on that model and the odd shaped pieces of tissue made alignment very difficult. Paul suggested ironing the tissue onto glue stick that was applied and allowed to dry. When that didn't stick I just used the same method with the spray adhesive.

I used the same UUH glue stick. Had to go to an art store to find it. Goes on pink, dries clear and as soon as it gets wet, it turns pink again and the tissue falls off. Well, that's what happened with mine...

Paul says he doesn't have any problems with the method and now you tell me the same thing. I must be doing something wrong or it could be my models are stored in the hot and humid garage and the humidity has time to penetrate the adhesive?

Tissue had 4 coats of Krylon clear applied and even after getting wet enough for the glue to release the ink hasn't bled at all.

I'm hoping the dope will penetrate the tissue on the Camel and moisture proof the glue stick. If not, I'll strip and recover the thing and paint it!
Glenn
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 05:14 PM
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Paul suggested ironing the tissue onto glue stick that was applied and allowed to dry. When that didn't stick I just used the same method with the spray adhesive.
I tried Paul Bradley's method on balsa, and it worked fine (but was reluctant to try an iron on Depron). The iron reactivates the glue, allowing some smoothing. However, I found spray adhesive on balsa also works for me and prefer doing it that way. Here's an excerpt from my tissue "tutorial".

Gene K
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