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Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:28 AM
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50mm edf jets - the way back from future

The way back…..



…back from edf to prop-jet. Why this?


Note, I love the 50mm edf series and have several of this planes as edf. But from my view most of them sounds like an dying vacuum cleaner and are dam loud (also if they are balanced or as wemotec-version). Especially where I live, loud edfs are more an more an non go, mostly cause we live in densely populated areas an people do not love the loud edfs.


Prop jets are nothing new, remember the jets with os engines, also those are in my region non welcome (and other os driven planes in general) and the sound is ugly to for an jet, so electric is the way to go.


After reading and successfully experimenting with prop driven skyangel jets like the sabre or mig on http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1576038 , I tried to convert other 50mm edf jets “back to prop”. So actually the t45 and – she flies like a dream with the prop! Well, she flies also very good with an edf, but like I said, to loud on my flying fields.


What i`ve done;

Cutting the nose away, inserting an electric motor (emax cf2822), an cheap 18a brushless esc, and an folding prop with 28mm spinner. The weight of the motor is somewhat heavy, and think the jet is now also somewhat overpowered, but the emax I had in stock from spare parts. I used only 1 gyro (5g grams) for ailerons, and 1x 9 gramms for elevator. Elevator gyro was putted back in the body for cg reasons.


The lipo is an 3s 450 to 500 mah, 30c, for taking the original mentioned cg by skyangel, I had to put the battery 10cm back where originally the edf sits.


Flight time is aprox 5-7 minutes, not full throttle, only by doing some low scale passes. ¾ throttle for hand launching and this slightly nose upwards in the wind is enough. half throttle for flying is very scale & enough pleasure.


Landing on the belly, the folding prop eliminates prop breaking. Will work also with an prop saver, but then you have to shape a foam spinner an gluing it on the prop, looks not good as an folding prop, so I changed to a folding prop. The cone of the folding prop is not exactly scale compared to an bae hawks nose, but very near. In the air, you don`t see the prop, and the sound is only a slightly “srrrrr” like an parkzone t28, very quiet.



Addition; cause I have to fly often in windy condition, I use an gyro on ailerons, not necessary (the hawk itself flies very stable), but much more agreeable to fly in gusty winds. And today, since eflite has his as3x and also traditional pilots praise her gyro migs, spits etc, gyros are nothing more to scrunch ones nose.



Conclusion – the prop-jet flies awesome good, at least so good as with an edf (I have this jet twice, once as edf). For more an “jet-sound”, I will try mabye to add an air whistle in the belly.


My next project on the table; the f-18.



maiden video here, effective flying video begins from minute 1.22
skyangel 50mm prop jet bae hawk/t45 (4 min 11 sec)


Regards



swissflying
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:26 AM
Yes..ok..maybe..lol.....
Tucson Avra Valley, Arizona, United States
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Yes........................but Yuck!!
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 10:34 AM
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yuck but quiet`n flies

william fliesbeare :-)
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 10:46 AM
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Great flying area you've got there! I don't see how anyone could even hear an EDF flying in that field....
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 12:26 PM
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this airfield is near the route with a lot of vehicles (can see an here it in the back). if you look the whole movie you will see for a short while houses on the right border on the field (in the movie at minutes 1.52/53), there begins an small city. while flying my genuine edfs several times there, the residents from there where protesting about the to loud sound, since i fly with the prop jet no problem at all.
swiss citizens reclaming also every year more, if the genuine f18 jets from swiss air force doing her job practicing her role in protecting the skys

this is also not an official model-clubs flying field in the movie, is a bigger area owned by an farmer betwen two villages (only 2 km from village to village). there i can fly only in winter when the farmer is not working on the field, and best when wind coming from the village so the wind bears away noises from the houses. so my edfs i fly in an ex-airforce airfield not more in service, but cause this field is also on the border of a city, flying times are very limited to evening hours and only for 2 hrs.

here in switzerland flying clubs have more an more problems to fly with loud models like edfs or planes with os motors. you must also understand that switzerland is one of worlds most populated countries, especially if not in the alps (and in those highlands you rarely won`t find any flying fields). we do not have many clubs with flying fields cause such reasons, and more an more model flying fans change to electric helis cause they need lesser space.

sincerly

swissflying
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 02:56 PM
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your prop is limiting the speed unnecessarily - a lot.
if this is a standard brand name folding prop or other with 8mm root you can mount, e.g., 7x6 Aeronaut blades you can buy in every European hobby shop.
that would make it move a lot better without ANY more noise, and similar amps...
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 05:54 PM
Effumall
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Oh, the humanity!
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:37 PM
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thx mopetista

you`re absolutely right, have mounted both, an 7x4, 7x6 and the current prop. with the 7series it flies indeed faster but only somewhat quiter, the 8x prop give more thrust, it climbs almost vertically.

i was not looking for a speed demon, the jet flies this way very scale (compared to the bae hawk t66 was in swiss air force service some years ago), also in slow speeds it handles better than with the 7x props.


thanks for thoughts & regards
swissflying
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 09:15 PM
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United States, MI, Portage
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Thank god I live in America. I can fly my EDF anywhere without people complaining. USA! USA! USA! USA!
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 05:16 AM
I am GBLynden
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No thanks Jeff.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 07:56 PM
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have you thought about 70mm 10 blade edf's? in the right model you hear nothing but a nice woosh!
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 10:29 PM
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Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
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I have a spare 50mm T45 airframe and I considered mounting a tractor prop system ... after watching this ... I'm putting it back on the shelf to wait a new EDF unit.
I appreciate your problem of noise though ... my 5000kv 50mm T45 does make a lot of sound. But with the tractor prop it just sounds strange ..

back in 1980's Leicester Hobby Centre in UK did a beautiful Hawk kit designed for tractor prop ... many people actually modified it to take IC Glow DF units ... but as a prop machine - it flew well. But not fast at all.

Question to Swissflying ... You say GYRO ... do you mean SERVO ? I don't see point of Gyro in the T45 which is one of the most forgiving and stable 50mm of the series.

Nigel
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 11:45 PM
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hobby king have a 50mm 10blade alloy out soon as well i think that will be the best option
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 02:30 AM
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http://rc-castle.com already have the 50mm 10 blade released.

$36.98 with a Kv3300 motor for 4s use....

A prop is still more efficient, but I think the 10 blader will have WAY better sound than a prop.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:19 AM
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Hello nigel and magnus

Yes, you`re right, the t45 is absolutely an stable jet with no need for an gyro, but with gyro is much more stable, especially in side or gusty winds in general, she flies more scale in such winds, and this also with low speed. Compare it with the umx mig15, without gyro the plane would never fly in winds as she`s do with as3x. my umx mig15 handle winds some bigger planes not do, an where I have to fly we have often strong winds. With gyro I can go fly (often, but shure not always-) when others will not.
I know maybe I will provoke sb.; a friend of our family is an swiss f18 air force pilot, and he tolds me todays military jets flying characteristics are more and more based on stabilizing electronics, and less on planes design in aerodynamics, like jets in the 50`and 60` ties where made. He told also todays piloting skills are also near the ones of IT- specialists.

Thanks for the thought about the new 50mm 10 blade edf, interesting possible variant. But with necessary esc, an 4s lipo, it would increase the flying weight compared to the stock edf of the plane up to aprox. 160+ gramms – think the flying characteristics will change (also increasing wing loading) and the t45 have to fly fast to stay stable. Like I wrote before, i`m not searching for an pylon racing t45 (the “real” t45 is an trainer not racer).

But the mentioned10 blade edf could be interesting for an heavier edf, mabye in “downgrading” from stock 64mm edf to this one – maybe for an sapac/hk t45, who knows….


Thanks and regards

swissflying
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