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Old Jan 09, 2013, 11:34 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcposter View Post
No such intention is implied by one's support for abortion rights.
Oh gosh of course not. Two humans undergo the abortion, only one survives. Why would anyone take support for such a thing as support for such a thing?

We know those killed are not trees or puppies, because one of the common arguments for abortion is not having people around who will cost you money.
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Last edited by MtnGoat; Jan 09, 2013 at 11:41 PM.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 11:36 PM
Sweeper Nut
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Joined Apr 2007
624 Posts
Everyone in this country can get medical care. I've seen homeless people pulled from the bushes against their will and forced to go to the hospital.
Anyone who goes to the ER will get medical treatment.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 11:40 PM
Bagpipes spoken here
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United States, MN, St Paul
Joined Aug 2007
108 Posts
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Interesting take on medical care when the intention is for someone to die.
Often the only other choice is for both to die.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 11:42 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by Pipemajor View Post
Often the only other choice is for both to die.
Often? Define often.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 11:44 PM
THE ЯUSSIANS ARE COMING!
rcposter's Avatar
United States, CA, SF
Joined Apr 2011
191 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Oh gosh of course not. Two humans undergo the abortion, only one survives. Why would anyone take support for such a thing as support for such a thing?
Do you mean to speak of a human embryo and a woman in whose body it is developing?
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 11:46 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by rcposter View Post
Do you mean to speak of a human embryo and a woman in whose body it is developing?
What else would I be discussing? We're discussing humans aborting their own children, after all.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 11:52 PM
THE ЯUSSIANS ARE COMING!
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United States, CA, SF
Joined Apr 2011
191 Posts
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
What else would I be discussing? We're discussing humans aborting their own children, after all.
I don't think we are discussing the same thing (conceptually).

We are discussing a woman and an embryo.

You are discussing murder.

That's fine, and I don't expect to come to broad agreement with you here. I just don't appreciate being told I'm intending for "someone to die."
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 12:07 AM
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by rcposter View Post
I don't think we are discussing the same thing (conceptually).

We are discussing a woman and an embryo.

You are discussing murder.

That's fine, and I don't expect to come to broad agreement with you here. I just don't appreciate being told I'm intending for "someone to die."
I'm not concerned with what you appreciate, or the mental gymnastics you're happy to engage in in order to assauge your conscience.

We know some people do not exist today because of abortion. We're told this is a cost benefit, specifically noting the people not born 'save us money'. We know women who don't choose to kill their own kids can sue for wrongful death of their *child* even when it's an embryo in event of a crime or accident. There are many more instances legal and scientific which clearly establish we're talking about stopping unique, human individuals from being born by killing them before they can be born.

We all know what we're talking about, and as you note, you want a 'conceptual' difference in place so you can support what you support in spite of the objective reality of what is taking place, and that something is the fully intentional end of the life for a human being. So you don't have to 'look at it that way'.

How I avoid being accused of supporting murder, is by choosing not to support it, not by figuring out some way to claim killing innocents as the intended end result isn't murder.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 12:22 AM
THE ЯUSSIANS ARE COMING!
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United States, CA, SF
Joined Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
I'm not concerned with what you appreciate, or the mental gymnastics you're happy to engage in in order to assauge your conscience.

We know people do not exist today because of abortion. We're told this is a cost benefit, specifically noting the people not born 'save us money'. We know women who don't choose to kill their own kids can sue for wrongful death of their *child* even when it's an embryo in event of a crime or accident. There are many more instances legal and scientific which clearly establish we're talking about stopping unique, human individuals from being born by killing them before they can be born.

We all know what we're talking about, and as you note, you want a 'conceptual' difference in place so you can support what you support in spite of the objective reality of what is taking place, and that something is the fully intentional end of the life for a human being. So you don't have to 'look at it that way'.
My conscience is clear; no gymnastics needed. After all, I'm not the one falsely attributing intentions to others.

In my view, you are entitled to hold and follow your own conscience regarding abortion, and others should be allowed the same. As we are speaking about an issue which defies concrete analysis regarding the "personhood" of an embryo, and while it is an undeniable given that an embryo is a part of a woman's body, it seems immoral to violate a woman's sovereignty.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 12:45 AM
Build/Fly/Crash/Repeat
United States, HI, Kapalua
Joined Jan 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
What else would I be discussing? We're discussing humans aborting their own children, after all.
Actually the thread was about Planned Parenthood. Abortions are an incredibly small part of what PP is all about (3%) and even then only after the pregnant client has been informed of ALL her other choices and has insisted on an abortion.

Whether you, I or anyone else agrees with that choice, once a pregnant woman has made that choice an abortion is going to occur.

The bulk (as in 97%) of what PP does is provide healthcare to low income women who quite likely would not receive it otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike McCrea
Everyone in this country can get medical care. I've seen homeless people pulled from the bushes against their will and forced to go to the hospital.
Anyone who goes to the ER will get medical treatment.
That sounds just fine on "paper", but the reality is that low income women, pregnant or not, are not going to receive long term specialized women's healthcare in an ER.

If you truly believe that is the proper place to go then you are just revealing how little you understand about women's healthcare and what Planed Parenthood is all about.

You are not alone, as each time this subject comes up many of the same people reveal how little they know about the subjects.

The reality is that abortions are in fact legal, have been performed since virtually the beginning of time, and will continue to be done.

With the care PP provides many lives are saved, abortions averted and women's health is vastly improved.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 12:53 AM
Build/Fly/Crash/Repeat
United States, HI, Kapalua
Joined Jan 2002
1,198 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
I'm not concerned with what you appreciate, or the mental gymnastics you're happy to engage in in order to assauge your conscience.

We know some people do not exist today because of abortion. We're told this is a cost benefit, specifically noting the people not born 'save us money'. We know women who don't choose to kill their own kids can sue for wrongful death of their *child* even when it's an embryo in event of a crime or accident. There are many more instances legal and scientific which clearly establish we're talking about stopping unique, human individuals from being born by killing them before they can be born.

We all know what we're talking about, and as you note, you want a 'conceptual' difference in place so you can support what you support in spite of the objective reality of what is taking place, and that something is the fully intentional end of the life for a human being. So you don't have to 'look at it that way'.

How I avoid being accused of supporting murder, is by choosing not to support it, not by figuring out some way to claim killing innocents as the intended end result isn't murder.
Feel free to push your beliefs in thread after thread, year after year. The bottom line is they are in fact legal and they are not your choice to make. They will continue to occur.

Given that you've been ranting on this subject for many years, perhaps you should take your personal anti-abortion campaign somewhere where your "message" can be heard in a more effective arena, rather than on an off topic forum of a radio control forum primarily populated by middle aged men.

Then again, you'd have a far less "willing" audience.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 07:46 AM
LcJ
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United States, LA, Monroe
Joined Mar 2003
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Originally Posted by CoastalFlyer View Post
Feel free to push your beliefs in thread after thread, year after year. The bottom line is they are in fact legal and they are not your choice to make. They will continue to occur.

Given that you've been ranting on this subject for many years, perhaps you should take your personal anti-abortion campaign somewhere where your "message" can be heard in a more effective arena, rather than on an off topic forum of a radio control forum primarily populated by middle aged men.

Then again, you'd have a far less "willing" audience.
Censorship?

Well MtnGoat you also seem to have a follower.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 07:56 AM
Reserved Parking
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Joined Jun 2004
926 Posts
WATCH a Partial-Birth ABORTION! (4 min 26 sec)
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:01 AM
Sweeper Nut
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Joined Apr 2007
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Originally Posted by P-51C View Post
The democrats should be very proud. Every person in America should be required to watch this.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:07 AM
THE ЯUSSIANS ARE COMING!
rcposter's Avatar
United States, CA, SF
Joined Apr 2011
191 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-51C View Post
Yes. Very useful when aborting severely deformed fetuses or in situations where normal delivery would threaten the woman's life.
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