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Old Dec 20, 2003, 05:38 PM
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hmm, so i can't call someone a J-word but heliboyz can refer to certain rcgroups members as stupid?
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 06:26 PM
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Bradenton, Florida
Joined May 2003
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For the record, what was EDITED above wasn't per se inflamatory. Simply asking Ben and I to discuss elsewhere. Didn't want this thread to get off track more than it already had
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 07:32 PM
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Annapolis, Md
Joined Jul 2003
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Sounds like the most important item left to know is the brand of battery, and Modifier_jan said he would let us know as soon as he can find out. That may be the culprit in this case. There are only three brands available that I would recommend.

1: Kokam
2: E-tec
3: Thunderpower

I have been using Etec and Kokams without any trouble....knock on wood. I have not tried the Thunderpower, but I know they are premium packs and get tested before they are sent out. I would never use an off brand brand. In addition, some retailers make the packs, and I will not buy from any retailer that does not test the pack before sending it out. I know BPP and lightflightrc are careful in this area. I can not comment on others.
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 07:45 PM
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Bradenton, Florida
Joined May 2003
563 Posts
I'd add iRate's & Tanics to the list (both being from the same manufacture... Enerland)
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 07:48 AM
Space Coast USA
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Space Coast
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Other accidents -
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=146156

Enjoy, but be careful. All the brands can react in ways other than what we've seen with NiCd/NiMH.

hoppy
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 10:07 AM
Balsa to the Wall
Deep in the East Texas Piney Woods
Joined Dec 2001
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It's a shame that a guy starts a thread with a simple post about his experience and it almost immediately turns into a contentious name calling, mud-slinging affair. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt before accusing him of all sorts of rule infractions?

Don't be so judgemental, you may be in his seat next time, or you may discourage someone from posting another experience that knowing about would help the community.
OTOH, Modifier_jan, it would help to know all the parameters leading up to the fire in the initial post.

Regards,


Chuck
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by heliboyz
i'm curious too. Every incident I've heard about regarding Lipo's has been the caused by stupidity or human error.
A generalization that happens to not be true.

Several reported incidents, with at least two of the fires or potential fires, were caused by charger errors.

I read of one or two instances where an auto cell count detecting charger detected the wrong number of cells. Not human error.

I also read of a charger resetting the charge mode at night after a brief power outage. Not human error.

These incidents occured early in the widespread use of Li-poly batteries, before it was deemed highly prudent to monitor the charging process. These and other incidents helped serve to modify our charging process to a more vigilant operation.
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 11:00 AM
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Metal box metal box metal box Matt
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 01:16 PM
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well said, thomas
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 01:41 PM
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The problem with these batteries is that people can't seem to grasp the concept of "Do Not EVER Leave A Li-Po Battery While It Is Charging" . I just don't understand what part of that people don't seem to understand. If you are gonna charge a Li-Po you stand right there with it and watch it...if you can't do that don't charge it. If you are too busy to charge these things and watch them, you are too busy to charge them at all. I like the post that said "Did You Honestly Think They Wouldn't Explode?" If you play with fire they will burn you...and your house, car, and anything else they come into contact with. Charging these batteries is NOT a game as many have already found out. If this scares the (%(%) out of you or anyone else, GOOD! I hope it does! Maybe these 'statistics' will go way down then. If these statistics keep going up because peoaple don't pay attention to what they are doing there may come a day when we won't have to worry about it anymore...because there will no longer be any of these things for sale. Be @&$'d glad that wasn't a Li-Ion or you'd be patching holes from the casing shrapnel that went in all directions.
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas B
A generalization that happens to not be true.

Several reported incidents, with at least two of the fires or potential fires, were caused by charger errors.

I read of one or two instances where an auto cell count detecting charger detected the wrong number of cells. Not human error.

I also read of a charger resetting the charge mode at night after a brief power outage. Not human error.

These incidents occured early in the widespread use of Li-poly batteries, before it was deemed highly prudent to monitor the charging process. These and other incidents helped serve to modify our charging process to a more vigilant operation.
Those charger errors were also not recognized because, AGAIN, the people were not standing right there to pull the plug. Maybe we should take a poll of how many people would stand there and watch a battery explode when they see the cc/cv process not going right. I think that the number would be something like zero unless they were testing, but that has already been done. If you NEVER leave these batteries charging you will recognize when to pull the plug. If you don't know what the charger is telling you, you shouldn't be using these batteries at all, and should be reading the directions and studying up on them. That goes right back to the thread on the proper use of these batteries. Failure to follow ANY rule in that thread will result in a fire or a silver balloon. If it doesn't it's just a matter of time.
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 02:06 PM
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well, fires are not caused by leaving batteries charging unattended. theoretically they might be prevented if the user is standing there hovering over the charger while charging, but even that could be dangerous. what is a user to do if he notices that his battery is swelling up while charging? should he reach his hands in there and frantically try to disconnect the battery or shut off the charger, or should he run like hell? the battery could explode at any moment if it's already puffed up, so i would be pretty nervous about trying to beat the clock and disconnect things.

when i charge my LiPos, i charge them in my fire place, and i am usually in the same room or in the adjacent room. i have a fire extinguisher nearby (but not too close) and keep the spark curtain closed on the fireplace. if there is a fire, it will likely be contained at least long enough for me to notice it and get to the fire extinguisher. i sure as hell would not want to be fiddling with the battery or charger at the moment it explodes, so i am pretty happy with my current system of not standing directly over the charger the whole time.
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 02:16 PM
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well said. I charge in a crock pot and store in a fire safe. I have not and will not stand and hover over my charger for the six hours I spend charging after a day of flying. I am always at home, they are in a seperate closed off room to keep them away from the kids with a smoke detector and a fire extinguisher. If the alarm goes off I'll go put out the fire. Of the videos I've seen I think the crock pot will contain any fire if not, then I'll get there and try to put it out. I'm not going to stand in the same room and study the charger for six hours and I don't think most do. If you do, thats great, I guess as long as you don't kill yourself trying to disconnect some puffing battery. I just don't understand what part of that people don't seem to understand.
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ben74
well, fires are not caused by leaving batteries charging unattended. theoretically they might be prevented if the user is standing there hovering over the charger while charging, but even that could be dangerous. what is a user to do if he notices that his battery is swelling up while charging? should he reach his hands in there and frantically try to disconnect the battery or shut off the charger, or should he run like hell? the battery could explode at any moment if it's already puffed up, so i would be pretty nervous about trying to beat the clock and disconnect things.

when i charge my LiPos, i charge them in my fire place, and i am usually in the same room or in the adjacent room. i have a fire extinguisher nearby (but not too close) and keep the spark curtain closed on the fireplace. if there is a fire, it will likely be contained at least long enough for me to notice it and get to the fire extinguisher. i sure as hell would not want to be fiddling with the battery or charger at the moment it explodes, so i am pretty happy with my current system of not standing directly over the charger the whole time.
well, Ben, I don't think I'd let the battery puff up would you? The plug would already be pulled. The point is, if you let it get to that point you are not watching what you are doing and that is what causes these fires and explosions. If you know what the charger is telling you there will be no balloon to run from. A fireproof container IS a good idea, but it doesn't replace watching them. These batteries are not for everybody...especially not people who will not watch them.

Aw, I almost forgot...if you own these batteries you have already agreed that you will follow these precautions so if there is a fire it's nobody's fault but the one it happens to.
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 02:25 PM
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United States, TX, Fort Worth
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aero330LX
Those charger errors were also not recognized because, AGAIN, the people were not standing right there to pull the plug. .........
Please note, as I said in my post, that these events occured when Li-poly batteries were fairly new on the scene, and the "watch them like a hawk" procedure had not yet been universally established. These events, in fact, helped to establish that very rule. This was not human error at the time it happened. Perhaps you can make a case for it being human error if it happened now. It was all new then.

I will continue to keep a close watch on my non-safety curcuit protected Li-polys as I charge them.

I also have some new Duralite Thunder Lite Li-poly batteries with an internal safety circuit that should make them almost as safe to charge unattended as our cell phones and other consumer products. The safety circuit charges each battery cell separately and monitors the individual cell voltage level.

Since even these new batteries are in the soft pack that can be damaged through mishandling and crashes, I will charge them, when unattended, in a fire and explosion resistant place.
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Last edited by Thomas B; Dec 21, 2003 at 02:28 PM.
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