HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Feb 09, 2013, 05:06 PM
Suspended Account
Greenland
Joined Mar 2012
9,069 Posts
I agree, Charles. Apples and oranges.
JohnathanSwift is offline Find More Posts by JohnathanSwift
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 09, 2013, 07:31 PM
Registered User
Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
Joined Feb 2013
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Say you are charging at 10A then with the End set for 10% of CC when the charge rate drops to 1A in the CV stage the charge ends.

Since the PL keeps getting mentioned the 10% or 1/10 is the End charge rate used by the P{L8 and 6 when set to Faster charge and 5% or 1/20 is used for Accurate charge.

The ending charge rate yas an effect on how full the cells are at the end of charge.

Easy to follow example: Fill you auto gas tank at a high rate and after pump cuts off you can add more if you do it slowly.

4010DUO comes with 1 LiPoly Preset and PLs come with a bunch. PLs have 23 or 24 preset as delivered and all are backedup in the Libary plus some extras and it is possible to have 25 user presets all of which can be saved to commputer's HD and loaded whenever all or 1,2, or any number.

DUO can have 64 Presets but only 6 or 7 from factory and only one for each chemistry,Nicad,NiMH.Pb, LiPoly,Lion etc. At present no way to merge Factory and custom presets on the DUO. CCS makes creating and modifying PL Preset supper simple and even without the CCS PL is easier to create or modify Presets than the DUO is.

DUO has onbaord and Micro DS logging whereas PLs do not. Everyone wants them compared but they are not really all that similiar IMO.


Charles
Ok thanks Charles, so if you set it at 5% the last past of the charge would be even less resulting in a higher standing charge correct?

Cheers Justin
Jpm76 is offline Find More Posts by Jpm76
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 09, 2013, 07:52 PM
That's a funny word
NE Ohio
Joined Apr 2003
3,686 Posts
The last part of the charge will be more because it will continue (past 10% of current setpoint) until 5% of setpoint current. It will result in a higher ending resting voltage.
gulio is offline Find More Posts by gulio
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 09, 2013, 09:23 PM
Registered User
Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
Joined Feb 2013
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulio View Post
The last part of the charge will be more because it will continue (past 10% of current setpoint) until 5% of setpoint current. It will result in a higher ending resting voltage.
Ok so 5% would give a higher standing voltage but would result in a slowing charge charging cycle correct.
Jpm76 is offline Find More Posts by Jpm76
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 09, 2013, 09:38 PM
Registered User
So. Cal.
Joined Oct 2004
8,458 Posts
Yes, at the sacrifice of longer charge cycle as you've indicated and also fewer usable cycles.
mrforsyth is online now Find More Posts by mrforsyth
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 09, 2013, 09:50 PM
Registered User
Brazil, São Paulo, São Bernardo do Campo
Joined Aug 2007
44 Posts
anyone recommend the hobbyhut.com?

thanks!
Jonnydb is offline Find More Posts by Jonnydb
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2013, 12:10 AM
mdv
Registered User
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jun 2009
524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
Yes, at the sacrifice of longer charge cycle as you've indicated and also fewer usable cycles.
What do you mean by fewer usable cycles? Charging to a higher voltage reduces pack life?
mdv is offline Find More Posts by mdv
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2013, 12:48 AM
Registered User
So. Cal.
Joined Oct 2004
8,458 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdv View Post
What do you mean by fewer usable cycles? Charging to a higher voltage reduces pack life?
Very much so. Reducing peak voltage by .1V can extend useful life by as much as 100%. It's for this very reason that EV manufacturers deliberately undercharge their lithium based batteries to well less than 100% charge state and terminate discharge with significant remaining capacity. As I recall, the Chevy Volt uses only ~65% of available capacity.

Here's a graph that Julez posted a while back that clearly demonstrates the benefits of charging to a lower charge state: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=5349064.

The first thing I did with my iChargers prior to placing into service was to lower the termination voltage such that my packs were never above 4.15 volts after charging and my lipolys have been very happy. I have a few that are almost 3-1/2 years old and ~250 cycles and are performing nearly as well as they did when new.

Mark
mrforsyth is online now Find More Posts by mrforsyth
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2013, 01:39 AM
Registered User
Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
Joined Feb 2013
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
Very much so. Reducing peak voltage by .1V can extend useful life by as much as 100%. It's for this very reason that EV manufacturers deliberately undercharge their lithium based batteries to well less than 100% charge state and terminate discharge with significant remaining capacity. As I recall, the Chevy Volt uses only ~65% of available capacity.

Here's a graph that Julez posted a while back that clearly demonstrates the benefits of charging to a lower charge state: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=5349064.

The first thing I did with my iChargers prior to placing into service was to lower the termination voltage such that my packs were never above 4.15 volts after charging and my lipolys have been very happy. I have a few that are almost 3-1/2 years old and ~250 cycles and are performing nearly as well as they did when new.

Mark
Ok that's interesting, what I thought was by going to5% and slowing the charge at the end would be better for your packs, but in fact what your saying is it's worse because it would increase the standing volts and therefor be harder in your batteries.

Do I have this correct ?

If so then I agree with lowering the end current to keep your packs nice and happy
Jpm76 is offline Find More Posts by Jpm76
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2013, 01:53 AM
Registered User
So. Cal.
Joined Oct 2004
8,458 Posts
You are correct. Your lipolys will be much happier if the charge cycle is ended earlier rather than later.

Mark
mrforsyth is online now Find More Posts by mrforsyth
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:31 AM
That's a funny word
NE Ohio
Joined Apr 2003
3,686 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpm76 View Post
If so then I agree with lowering the end current to keep your packs nice and happy
I think you have it , but the language sometimes is confusing. "lowering the end current"

The end % setting tells the charger to stop at x% of original setpoint. Thus a lower % will result in a longer charge because it will continue to ramp down to a LOWER current. This results in a HIGHER termination voltage, capacity and thus a HIGHER resting voltage.

I agree with Julez' chart and what Mark says about higher voltage. I see it first hand because the first thing I do is to jack mine up to 4.3 per cell. I can ruin a cheap lipo within 100 cycles. One of these days when I buy a expensive pack I may lower the voltage just to prove it. I "should" do it on one of my cheap packs though.
gulio is offline Find More Posts by gulio
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2013, 10:09 AM
Registered User
USA
Joined Jan 2002
4,860 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpm76 View Post
Ok that's interesting, what I thought was by going to5% and slowing the charge at the end would be better for your packs, but in fact what your saying is it's worse because it would increase the standing volts and therefor be harder in your batteries.

Do I have this correct ?

If so then I agree with lowering the end current to keep your packs nice and happy
The Revolectrix chargers come with a default long-life preset that charges to 4.10v.
Ohmic is offline Find More Posts by Ohmic
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2013, 05:11 PM
Registered User
Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
Joined Feb 2013
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulio View Post
I think you have it , but the language sometimes is confusing. "lowering the end current"

The end % setting tells the charger to stop at x% of original setpoint. Thus a lower % will result in a longer charge because it will continue to ramp down to a LOWER current. This results in a HIGHER termination voltage, capacity and thus a HIGHER resting voltage.

I agree with Julez' chart and what Mark says about higher voltage. I see it first hand because the first thing I do is to jack mine up to 4.3 per cell. I can ruin a cheap lipo within 100 cycles. One of these days when I buy a expensive pack I may lower the voltage just to prove it. I "should" do it on one of my cheap packs though.
Ok I think I'm on to it now, just a quick one though, am I better to lower the end current % and end voltage to say 4.15 volts and keep it as close to 4.15 volts standing charge or raise the end current % to say 30% and leave the end voltage at 4.2 volts which in theory would fall back under 4.2 volts standing and result in a quicker charge time?

I feel the first option would be better for the packs as they would never go over 4.15 volts but would be slightly slower?

Ps I'm not worried about a slightly slower charge time, I'm just trying to get my head around this, sorry for the endless dumb questions

Cheers Justin
Jpm76 is offline Find More Posts by Jpm76
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2013, 05:21 PM
Suspended Account
Greenland
Joined Mar 2012
9,069 Posts
Justin, no one was born with complete knowledge, here. Asking is best!
JohnathanSwift is offline Find More Posts by JohnathanSwift
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Feb 10, 2013, 05:42 PM
Registered User
Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
Joined Feb 2013
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnathanSwift View Post
Justin, no one was born with complete knowledge, here. Asking is best!
Agreed, I'd rather ask a dumb question then make a stupid mistake and burn my house down lol
Jpm76 is offline Find More Posts by Jpm76
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Article iCharger 4010Duo - Review CSpaced Batteries and Chargers 226 Dec 17, 2014 09:09 AM
Question What else has Jack been hiding from us? Newtron North Coast Electric Flyers 2 Mar 05, 2012 11:09 PM
Suggestion How do I know if my warning point has been retracted AndyOne Site Suggestions / Complaints 2 Mar 05, 2012 09:21 AM
Sold message has been deleted sonicboom24 Cars - Cars and Parts (FS/W) 0 Feb 22, 2012 01:34 PM