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Old Feb 02, 2013, 12:25 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by bobly View Post
Fascinating to say the least. But really confuses me also. For those that say that these systems don't help fly the plane or make things easier, this video seems to offer another side of the story. It certainly looks like this thing could make me look way better than I am and I even see a touch of that with my little Sbach with as3x. But this makes me have another question - do I really want this hobby to be easier to make me look good, or is part of the attraction the challenge of trying to learn and get to the point that I look good? And, I really don't have to look good, as I fly by myself most often, so don't have to impress anyone but myself. I'm old and a bit slow to learn and it can already be a bit of a letdown when some young pup with super reflexes, sight, hand/eye coordination and pretrained thumbs surpasses my skills in a few months or less, but how frustrating might it be down the road when a young super thumb fellow, buys the next generation of this technology, works on a sim for a few hours and comes out and does a full 3d program and then throws in an aerobatic routine for good measure. And if it becomes super easy, how many of these new flyers will stay in the hobby very long - looks like it could get pretty boring pretty quick. I know that for me, just in my short time in this addiction, the more I learn, the less of a compassion it seems to be, but I still have a long way to go. In the very beginning, I just had to fly every day with the thought of I just HAVE to learn how to do this. OK, enough rambling, but does anyone else feel this way?
Completely different system than AS3X. AS3X is a rate-based system, so it doesn't fly the plane at all - as all of us who fly with the system know. He was flying the Guardian with the gains maxed (which is not how it is usually flown). It was behaving like a heading-hold system, which is completely different than AS3X. It's like comparing apples to meat

Joel
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 01:14 PM
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Joel - do you think HH is ending with as3x or just starting? I do understand the differences in the systems, but see a very good chance of some marketing going on. Like not offering all the bells and whistles right out of the box - then you are still holding some cards? The other part for me would be if I'm thinking about trying one, why not think about the rolls royce instead of the chevy? Not sure I want one or not, but as with a lot of things, the only way I will ever know is to get one and try it. No one else will ever be able to tell me if I like it or not, I have to figure that one out for myself. But I now have to figure out if I really want to start with the Chevy. I already have 3 of the chevy's little brothers. And there are for sure things that as3x in the Sbach steps in and makes me look better than I am on.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 02:20 PM
Team Aztech Aeromodels!
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United States, PA, Allentown
Joined May 2011
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Originally Posted by Sonofagun View Post
Z, you will freeze your lipos off if you try to maiden today!
Yeah, I'm not going to maiden it today!
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 02:23 PM
Team Aztech Aeromodels!
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United States, PA, Allentown
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
Sweeeet!! Can't wait to see some video Z. Let me know what you think!
Will do! So far I really like it even though I haven't flown it yet! It went together really easy and looks great! It's also bigger than I thought it would be! The wing is really deep which I think makes it look big!
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 02:46 PM
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Indianapolis, IN
Joined Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by zmonster97 View Post
Will do! So far I really like it even though I haven't flown it yet! It went together really easy and looks great! It's also bigger than I thought it would be! The wing is really deep which I think makes it look big!
It will be nice to see what you can do with it. Now quite being a sissy and go fly it!
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 02:49 PM
wjs
William
United States, MI, Brighton
Joined Oct 2012
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Originally Posted by IndyMatt View Post
It will be nice to see what you can do with it. Now quite being a sissy and go fly it!
Snowing here. Can't catch a break these days. I suppose I could man up, but probably not a smart move.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 03:13 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobly View Post
Joel - do you think HH is ending with as3x or just starting? I do understand the differences in the systems, but see a very good chance of some marketing going on. Like not offering all the bells and whistles right out of the box - then you are still holding some cards? The other part for me would be if I'm thinking about trying one, why not think about the rolls royce instead of the chevy? Not sure I want one or not, but as with a lot of things, the only way I will ever know is to get one and try it. No one else will ever be able to tell me if I like it or not, I have to figure that one out for myself. But I now have to figure out if I really want to start with the Chevy. I already have 3 of the chevy's little brothers. And there are for sure things that as3x in the Sbach steps in and makes me look better than I am on.
Bobly,

I think that we have only seen the beginning of what the technology can do. I see applications for scale aircraft that were not practical before, such as the V-22, F-35, and other VTOL designs - along with other inherently unstable scale subjects. The systems are also great for FPV, which is currently the fastest-growing segment of the hobby. A number of companies have been offering various flavors of 'on-board instructors' in their larger entry-level 4-channel planes, which can be turned off once the person has progressed to the point where they don't need the help. I see that expanding as the costs come down even further over the next few years. I think it's a good thing. It used to be that the only way to learn how to fly without crashing a lot was to find an instructor. Many people who tried to learn on their own back in the day got frustrated & quit before they ever made a successful flight, due to the steep learning curve of learning to fly being compounded by having to also learn how to repair. That is a very poor learning environment. The on-board instructor systems give people who don't have access to a human instructor a chance to learn the basics with less fear - and without having to wait for ideal weather. New pilots will still be anxious to turn off the on-board instructor & fly on their own - just like how those of us who learned to fly with a human instructor could hardly wait for our first solo.

Regarding the Rolls vs the Chevy - I will most likely be putting a system in my PA Extra 260 to improve its wind-handling capability. For that plane, I'd like adjustable master gain from the tx, automatic gain-induced oscillation detection with auto gain reduction, and the ability to bypass the system in flight without affecting control-throws. I think I'll be going with the Guardian in the Extra. I will most likely pick up an AR635 to have on-hand for experimentation in other airframes. The thing is - I'm not a rates guy. I prefer to use full throws and dial-in some expo to get the desired response around mid-stick. I was really disappointed to learn about the AR635's fixed rate reduction in general flight mode. I'll use it in something that doesn't have wild throws or a wide speed envelope, so that I can leave it in sport mode & just use one gain setting across the entire speed-range.

Joel
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 03:27 PM
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United States, NC, Charlotte
Joined Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by bobandris View Post
Hey Guys,

I've very carefully studied the Spektrum DX8 downloadable setting for the new VisionAire. I've flown a lot of scale and sport, but not much 3D. Rather than have the Aileron and Elevator dual-rates on the AIL D/R Switch and the Rudder dual-rates on the RUDD D/R switch I'd prefer to transfer all of them to the single FMODE switch. Can you tell me what the downside would be to doing this?
I put all my Duel Rates on one switch....the Elevator Switch.. So far I have not seen any downside at all..
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 03:32 PM
Hey... watch this...
Mmarshall's Avatar
Herndon, Virginia, United States
Joined Feb 2003
787 Posts
I agree that we are just scratching the surface of what technology can do for the hobby.

With RC helicopters it went in stages.

1. Gyro - Standard had to spool up and was rate only effecting just the tail rotor.
Allowed the user to no longer manually adjust the tail rotor when the throttle changed

2 Piezo Gyro- No moving parts rate only on tail rotor.
Same as above

3. Heading Hold Gyro- No moving parts only on tail rotor.
Allows the helicopter to be pointed in a direction by the pilot and that heading would hold no matter if the heli was flying backward or sideways. This type of flying was possible without heading hold but only pro's could do it.

4. 3 Axis Flybarless system- no moving parts, heading hold. Controls all axis.

Allows many more pilots to do 3D more easily then before counter acts wind in all directions.

Having started flying Heli's with out Gyro's and watching it progress to today's standards its amazing.

Yes many said it was like cheating yadda yadda... but it is now main stream and very few helicopters are developed without these systems, more and more competitions allow these systems (XFC) and I do not see them going away.

It still takes a lot of skill to fly a heli and even more to fly a 3D heli but some of the flying would be impossible for 90% of the pilots without these systems.

I feel you will soon see these systems for fixed wing more and more.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Bobly,



Regarding the Rolls vs the Chevy - I will most likely be putting a system in my PA Extra 260 to improve its wind-handling capability. For that plane, I'd like adjustable master gain from the tx, automatic gain-induced oscillation detection with auto gain reduction, and the ability to bypass the system in flight without affecting control-throws. I think I'll be going with the Guardian in the Extra. I will most likely pick up an AR635 to have on-hand for experimentation in other airframes. The thing is - I'm not a rates guy. I prefer to use full throws and dial-in some expo to get the desired response around mid-stick. I was really disappointed to learn about the AR635's fixed rate reduction in general flight mode. I'll use it in something that doesn't have wild throws or a wide speed envelope, so that I can leave it in sport mode & just use one gain setting across the entire speed-range.

Joel
Joel, I didn't think you were a 3d flyer, why would not having 3d rates be a problem. They have stated the plane is fully aerobatic with some 3d capability on the general rate. I have been assuming that the 3d rate only added the extreme travel that the hard core 3d pilots use for air brakes. Are you thinking that they have it down to trainer stage in general flight mode? Now you've got me to thinking maybe I don't want to pick it up tomorrow. I don't do 3d, but want full aerobatic capability. I wish there were more flight videos of this one with some regular flying and some aerobatics. Don't think I want to drop that kind of money if the only way it will do stunts is in full 3d mode.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:46 PM
Can't fly 3D for toffee ...
United Kingdom, Taunton
Joined Dec 2012
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I don't know if this helps, Bobly, but there are 4 modes if you set it as per the manual: General at low and high rates and 3D at low and high rates. I still don't have the weather to maiden it but looking at the control throws it should be able to be pretty versatile. General low rate looks like not a lot, especially the elevator. There is plenty of movement in general high rate and I can imagine it is plenty for sport aerobatics. 3D low rate looks similar but the difference is that the Rx is tuned for lower speeds. 3D high rate has huge throws as you would expect. I am expecting to spend half my time in general high rates doing sport aeros and the other half in 3D high rates, desperately trying not to look as incompetent as I am. The only rate that concerns me is general low rate: the throws looks so little that I wonder if it is easy to get intoi a situation you cannot recover from without finding the correct switch!

I made some terribly gash cardboard and bubble wrap wing bags today along with some protectors for the tail end. So, I'm ready for the car trip to the field but the wind gusts are forecast high (30mph+) for many days yet
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:05 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobly View Post
Joel, I didn't think you were a 3d flyer, why would not having 3d rates be a problem. They have stated the plane is fully aerobatic with some 3d capability on the general rate. I have been assuming that the 3d rate only added the extreme travel that the hard core 3d pilots use for air brakes. Are you thinking that they have it down to trainer stage in general flight mode? Now you've got me to thinking maybe I don't want to pick it up tomorrow. I don't do 3d, but want full aerobatic capability. I wish there were more flight videos of this one with some regular flying and some aerobatics. Don't think I want to drop that kind of money if the only way it will do stunts is in full 3d mode.
Bobly,

I prefer to fly balsa at this scale. My interest was in putting the AR635 in my 48" PA Extra, which is a 240W/pound unlimited aerobatic ship. I may not be a big '3D guy', but I still like to throw in a few 3D maneuvers to spice things up. As I mentioned - I want the ability to disable the system from the tx while maintaining 100% throws. I don't want built-in reduced rates in general flight that I can't adjust. I don't like using dual-rates on any of my planes. I prefer to use large throws & tame things down around center with expo - even on my sport planes. I learned a long time ago that I prefer to have full control-authority available at all times - even though I may not use it all that often.

Joel
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:07 PM
Beast 60E Maniac
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Hamburg, Germany
Joined Feb 2010
873 Posts
visionaire is here- very nice plane in good QC !!!!
I have to mount it in the next evenings, will mod the elevator clevis first, change the battery connector and will check all screws.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:16 PM
Team Aztech Aeromodels!
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United States, PA, Allentown
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Originally Posted by IndyMatt View Post
It will be nice to see what you can do with it. Now quite being a sissy and go fly it!
Well I was going to go fly it tomorrow, but now it is snowing so I might not be able to get out and fly it tomorrow!
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:52 PM
lownslow
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United States, FL, Cape Canaveral
Joined Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Bobly,

I prefer to fly balsa at this scale. My interest was in putting the AR635 in my 48" PA Extra, which is a 240W/pound unlimited aerobatic ship. I may not be a big '3D guy', but I still like to throw in a few 3D maneuvers to spice things up. As I mentioned - I want the ability to disable the system from the tx while maintaining 100% throws. I don't want built-in reduced rates in general flight that I can't adjust. I don't like using dual-rates on any of my planes. I prefer to use large throws & tame things down around center with expo - even on my sport planes. I learned a long time ago that I prefer to have full control-authority available at all times - even though I may not use it all that often.

Joel
+1 was hoping we had the ability to turn the gyro on and off while maintaining full throws...............
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