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Old Jan 02, 2013, 08:24 PM
Bob
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Australian 12 Metre Enthusiasts

G'Day, and welcome one and all to our new thread for 2013.

This thread is intended to serve those 12 Metre skippers who are dedicated to promoting the various classes currently sailed in Australia. As reported in another thread on this forum, our East Coast 12 National status has been withdrawn by the ARYA and as a consequence the class is now managed by individual State Councils. Subsequently, our emphasis will focus on NSW events and developments. Information from other States is encouraged and welcomed.

We will also be reporting on the "Australia II" "Nautic 12" and "J" 12 Metre classes along with general information relating to various types of RC sailing that may interest readers.

East Coast 12:

As we move forward with rejuvenating the class we are proud to announce the return of Kevin Humphries. Kevin produced and owns the original EC12 mould that is based on the original Treasure Tooling mould, which was the standard in America at the time.

Kevin will commence production early 2013. All enquiries should be made directly with Kevin: kevin@hobbywerx.com.au

Australia II:

Our good mate Steve Crewes has championed the Australia II and Nautic 12 for many years and I'm pleased to announce numbers are growing with regular sailing being held around the Sydney area. For more information, please contact Steve: shcrewes@bigpond.net.au In addition; our EC12 coordinator, Colin Durran recently purchased the moulds for the Australia II and will commence production early 2013. Please be mindful, Colin is still in the workforce and doesn't have the luxury of time that retirement affords; all enquiries are welcome by contacting: eastcoast12@live.com.au

J Class:

Kevin H also owns the mould for the Ranger J class; this is a 48 inch hull comparable with the NZ Canterbury J. To date, there has been expressions of interest from skipper ranging from Sydney, ACT and Western Australia. With orders in hand, Kevin will commence production early 2013. Enquiries should be made directly with Kevin: kevin@hobbywerx.com.au

Vintage Model Yachts:

From time to time we will also report on the progress of a number of skippers who collect, restore, maintain and sail the model yachts of yesteryear. In particular, the collection owned by Steve Crewes. Steve's passion for the preservation of these forgotten model yachts is as legendary as the many fine examples in his collection.

New Venue:

Steve Crewes has reported a new sailing venue has been found by his good mate Bob. The venue is Woodcroft Lake (Woodcroft) located in the Bert Saunders Reserve just off Richmond Road. Bob has secured approval from the local council and regular sailing has commenced. Sailing is not restricted to a specific class, enquires are welcome. Please contact Steve: shcrewes@bigpond.net.au

EC12 Class History:

We are still on the hunt for any information relating to the Australian EC12 class. Thanks to the generous assistance from NZ and the USA we have collected a number of very important pieces; regardless of how small or large, we welcome any assistance you may be able to provide including personal experiences.


Thank you for taking the time to read this thread, feel free to join in our discussions, you are most welcome.

Happy and prosperous New Year to all - 2013.

Regards,

Bob.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 09:25 PM
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G'Day, and welcome one and all to our new thread for 2013.

This thread is intended to serve those 12 Metre skippers who are dedicated to promoting the various classes currently sailed in Australia.

...We will also be reporting on the "Australia II" "Nordic 12"

Australia II:

Our good mate Steve Crewes has championed the Australia II and Nordic 12 for many years and I'm pleased to announce numbers are growing with regular sailing being held around the Sydney area. For more information, please contact Steve: shcrewes@bigpond.net.au In addition; our EC12 coordinator, Colin Durran recently purchased the moulds for the Australia II and will commence production early 2013. Please be mindful, Colin is still in the workforce and doesn't have the luxury of time that retirement affords; all enquiries are welcome by contacting: eastcoast12@live.com.au
Very interested in the Australia II and Nordic 12... would love to see more!
Probably the best vintage of 12s... (though '87 was probably the best AC event including the LV cup - sorry )
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 01:49 AM
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Viking, Try Nautic 12.
New Zealanders call it "Australia II". Anyhow it Aussie II.

Steve
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 01:57 AM
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Viking,
Try Nautic 12.
New Zealanders call it "Australia II" a seem to quite a good thing.

Steve
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 10:08 PM
Bob
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Thanks Steve,
I agree, Australia II - Nautic 12, all the same below the waterline. Thanks for the correction.
Regards,
Bob.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 11:50 PM
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Thanks Steve,
I agree, Australia II - Nautic 12, all the same below the waterline.
More information, please!
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 02:35 AM
Bob
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G'Day Aerominded,

The Australia II was designed and built by Alf Willoughby (following the success of the real Yacht in 1983) under the trade name of Mini Mariner to a strict "One Design" class rule. The overall hull length is 1520mm (59 13/16th) with a LWL between 1090mm and 1120mm. Width is 279mm @ station 35.

Initial sea trials identified a number of issue's that resulted in Alf recruiting assistance from his mate Ben Lexcen (Robert Miller). As Ben had access to a test tank facility, the problems were soon identified and subsequently rectified by Alf. Needless to say, the next sea trials were very successful.

The one design rule covers similar categories as those pertaining to an East Coast 12; Hull, Identification Label, Keel, Decks, Rudder - Station measurements - Mast & Booms - Electrical equipment - Adjustable equipment - Sails; Main & Jib and corresponding Distinguishing Marks.

The Model Yacht sails well in all conditions but in my opinion, sails at it's best in heavy air without the need to step down in rig size.

The Nautic 12 was produced in New Zealand with assistance from Steve Crewes. As can be seen from the photo's the main difference is the deck style. The Nautic maintains a tradition RC racing yacht deck as opposed to the Australia II deck which, IMHO has one major drawback of being a water collection point around the access hatch.

Both designs are a dream to sail and provide countless hours of enjoyment.

More photo's in due course.

Regards,

Bob.
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 04:18 AM
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Initial sea trials identified a number of issue's that resulted in Alf recruiting assistance from his mate Ben Lexcen (Robert Miller). As Ben had access to a test tank facility, the problems were soon identified and subsequently rectified by Alf. Needless to say, the next sea trials were very successful.

....
The Model Yacht sails well in all conditions but in my opinion, sails at it's best in heavy air without the need to step down in rig size.


Bob

Good to see things back on track..

Interesting comments on the Model Version of AUS II..

Having been fishing with Bob (aka Ben) & had opportunity to board the Original.. I would have to say the Opposite was the case for the 1:1 Scale..

AUS III was a far better boat in Heavy Going off Fremantle but when it fell to the Light stuff AUS II sailed away for almost everything..

The whole 1987 experience OFF Fremantle was a complete disaster more focussed on the appearance rather than getting the job done..

The last true Country vs Country Americas Cup IMHO...

Cheers

John

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Old Jan 05, 2013, 11:56 AM
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IEC-12 Early History

In response to several queries in the 2012 edition of this thread, I've pulled together some historical materials that may be of interest. Hope that posting it here in this format is not too off putting. Rod Carr, American MYA #002

THE INTERNATIONAL EC-12 RULE AND THE AmMYA

Including information from the 1994 – “RECENT ISSUES” discussion written by Bob Wells of Mercer Island, Washington, and with annotations by Rod Carr of Redmond, Washington.

Note: A small amount of editing has been done to the original document and herein AmMYA is taken to mean the American Model Yachting Association as a means of lessening confusion with the Australian Model Yachting Association.

As you read AmMYA's , Model Yachting, or other publications you will find references to the "international" status or the "International" East Coast 12 Meter (IEC-12M), the largest unresolved issue in the class. This provides some background to help you understand and follow developments. It occurred with some controversy, the major issues being hull form and the voting portion of the proposed constitution. In the interest of brevity, the below only outlines what happened.

In January 1980, the International Yacht Racing Union - Model Yacht Racing Division (IYRU-MYRD) accepted the EC-12M as the first international one-design class for model yacht racing. In 1986 the IYRU-MYRD requested that rules for all international classes be rewritten in a consistent format, and an EC-12M subcommittee, headed by Rod Carr of the USA, was formed of members from five countries known to sail the boat (USA, GB, KA, KZ, and KC). A new more restrictive class rule was written for the "International" East Coast 12 Meter, as well as a constitution and by-laws.

The revised IEC-12 Rule was based on the existing AmMYA EC-12 Rule, and was sufficiently coincident to allow American EC-12s to sails in compliance with the IEC-12 Rule, provided that sail leech roaches were smooth, continuous curves. At this time, some American EC-12s had taken advantage of the simple AMYA EC-12 Rule that only specified a maximum roach measurement, but did not specify the geometry of the leech curve itself.

The AmMYA EC-12 Class members were presented with a ballot item in fall 1989 that provided for adoption of IEC-12 Rule. This choice was complicated by a parallel debate in the parent organization over the status of the Racing Rules of Sailing that were undergoing changes, and which had not been adopted by the AmMYA either.

However, the AMYA membership did not ratify the IEC-12M proposal, voting 78 to 45 against adoption, and compromise efforts also failed. The IYRU-MYRD then adopted the new IEC-12M as a new class in 1990, which lifted sanctioning of the AMYA EC-12M class.

After the ballot item failed, American skippers decided to institute an IEC-12 Class, separate from the AmMYA class. Under the direction of Ron Banner, 65 skippers registered their boats with the proposed AmMYA IEC-12 Class, a number of skippers far above the 20 boat minimum necessary for establishment of a new class under AmMYA rules. Unfortunately, the anti-International bias was strongly represented by the AmMYA Executive, and President Charles Scales unilaterally refused to establish the IEC-12 as an AmMYA Class, though it had met all requirements for such status.

Additional efforts to a compromise by a technical committee within the IEC-12M also failed. In 1992 the IYRU-MYRD placed the IEC-12M class on a two-year probation with intention to remove sanctioning unless the issues are resolved.

In the US, we have locally and nationally continued to race under the AMYA EC-12 class rule through it all.

The effort for an IEC-12M class included the creation of a new primary hull plug with the intention future hulls be built to a tighter tolerance. Existing hulls were to be grandfathered into the new class. In 1989 the IEC-12M technical committee selected the Hartman Fiberglass R/C plug as the basis of the new primary hull plug. This being considered by the IEC-12M technical committee as the nearest existing hull to the original design the class is founded upon. This eventually became the plug the Puritan Yachts mold came from. The name "Puritan" both suggests the strong resemblance to the original design and refers to the Edward Burgess designed Puritan, the 1885 America's Cup defender. The IEC-12M plug is now in Australia.

One of these plugs was provided to Australia by Rod Carr and has occasionally been referred to as the Carr Plug...somewhat of a misnomer.

Tom Jordin somehow agreed to create this new IEC-12M plug. In researching the plug, Tom reviewed the lines of Constellation, the Olin Stephen's 1964 America's Cup defender. Among many characteristics shared by both hulls was the sharp angles or facets extending longitudinally around the keel bottom. However, these were eased somewhat in the final Jordin plug to conform more with existing EC-12M's. When efforts for an international organization stalled, Tom, as Puritan Yachts, submitted his hull to the AMYA and received approval after close scrutiny in 1992. Prior to approval, the gunwale had to be lowered 1/4" at station 20, but otherwise it is a middle-of-the-road yacht relative to AMYA-approved yachts. The newest AMYA-approved hull manufacturer, Puritan Yachts, was actually a chance result of efforts to make the EC-12M an international class. Unfortunately, after only producing ten or twelve hulls, Tom Jordin and Puritan Yachts ceased production. Tom has taken a breather from model yachts, and is pursuing other interests. I hope my friend takes only a temporary break from model yachts.

One result of the IEC-12M efforts was a tightening of the AMYA sail tolerances in 1992. This was one area where consensus was reached between the two groups. Because the racing is closer, there is general satisfaction with the standard or "A"-rig rule that eliminated significant roach area in the main. In 1993 the AMYA revised the requirements for the "B" and "C"-rigs closer to the IEC-12M. Another by product of the IEC-12M influence is the 1995 AMYA rule revision to a standard plug for all new hulls, that brings the class closer to a true one-design. The 1995 new standard class plug is based upon the middle-of-the-road Puritan.

Somewhat sad that the only difference between the two rules was eventually removed by the AmMYA group, and there was ultimately no reason for the two classes to have remain ed separate. Additionally, since the AmMYA sail specification modifications, little substantive change has been made in the AmMYA Rule, indicating the likelihood of stability had the IEC-12 Rule just been adopted when the opportunity was presented.

What about the IEC-12M? It appears effectively dead. I don't know of anywhere in the world where it is used. It is "allowed" as an option in NORC (NOrthwest Racing Circuit), our regional racing circuit with clubs from Canada and the US. To encourage EC12's under any rule; NORC accepted yachts from either rule, but they must meet all parts of whatever rule they choose. But the IEC12M rule just never caught on, and I've yet to see a Northwest boat built to it.

However, this should be an international class under one accepted rule; and I hope that somehow this is eventually accomplished.

Information on the present day status and condition of the AmMYA EC-12 Class including hull manufacturing requirements is available from the current Class Secretary whose e-mail is: ec12@TheAMYA.org
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 07:21 PM
Bob
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This is fantastic Rod,
Thank you for taking the time and effort, it is appreciated.

Regards,

Bob.
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 09:43 PM
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This is fantastic Rod,
Thank you for taking the time and effort, it is appreciated.

Regards,

Bob.
All great stuff! Thanks to all for the information! Neat to read that the model A II development had input from Ben Lexcen!

Also great info on the EC12 - I own one of those myself.
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RodACarr View Post

.....THE INTERNATIONAL EC-12 RULE AND THE AmMYA


... As you read AmMYA's , Model Yachting, or other publications you will find references to the "international" status or the "International" East Coast 12 Meter (IEC-12M), the largest unresolved issue in the class.

..... In 1986 the IYRU-MYRD requested that rules for all international classes be rewritten in a consistent format, and an EC-12M subcommittee, headed by Rod Carr of the USA, was formed of members from five countries known to sail the boat (USA, GB, KA, KZ, and KC). A new more restrictive class rule was written for the "International" East Coast 12 Meter, as well as a constitution and by-laws.

The revised IEC-12 Rule was based on the existing AmMYA EC-12 Rule, and was sufficiently coincident to allow American EC-12s to sails in compliance with the IEC-12 Rule,





What about the IEC-12M? It appears effectively dead. I don't know of anywhere in the world where it is used.


However, this should be an international class under one accepted rule; and I hope that somehow this is eventually accomplished.
Rod

All good & interesting stuff..

As you say the International Recognition & the IEC-12M is effectively dead..

What consideration if any has been given to setting up another committee rerpresentative of ALL EC12 Nations with a view to standardising the EC12 class. .

With proper consencus, compromise & consideration surely this is not without some degree of possibility..


What happened if anything with the 4 remaining Nations on the 1986 Committee.. Did they decide to endorse any particular outcome or was it just a complete washout & each country went their own way...

John
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 12:00 AM
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Look under "Our Past" ARYA "25 th Anniversary of Australia II".

http : //radioyachtingnz.wordpress.com/2012/08/21/a2-nz-championships/

Steve
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 10:57 AM
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Rod

What consideration if any has been given to setting up another committee rerpresentative of ALL EC12 Nationms with a view to standardising the EC12 class. .

What happened if anything with the 4 remaining Nations on the 1986 Committee.. Did they decide to endorse any particular outcome or was it just a complete washout & each country went their own way...

John
A revisiting of the IEC-12 concept is certainly possible, but would rest on the platters of those currently administering the EC-12 and Variant classes in each country where there is active racing.

The class populations existing at the time outside of the US were small compared to the US class, and there was just insufficient interest in continuing the effort.

I am personally no longer involved in the effort hands on, but do think that a class like the EC-12 that is not beholding to a single manufacturer, and that has a well tested Class Rule is the appropriate foundation for an international one-design class. The efforts made in recent years within the AmMYA EC-12 class to control hull shape, certify builders and register hulls would likely form a strong basis for a 2nd iteration of the IEC-12. Grandfathering of virtually all existing boats would be sensible given the proportion of skippers who would actually take part in international competition. The sticking point will likely be the elephant in the room, i.e.; the American EC-12 class, given the history of anti-international feeling that has been demonstrated there. But, hope springs eternal!! The Morgan Black competition seems to me to be a cornerstone effort that might prove a starting point.

Rod Carr
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 07:01 PM
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A revisiting of the IEC-12 concept is certainly possible, but would rest on the platters of those currently administering the EC-12 and Variant classes in each country where there is active racing.

The class populations existing at the time outside of the US were small compared to the US class, and there was just insufficient interest in continuing the effort.

I am personally no longer involved in the effort hands on, but do think that a class like the EC-12 that is not beholding to a single manufacturer, and that has a well tested Class Rule is the appropriate foundation for an international one-design class. The efforts made in recent years within the AmMYA EC-12 class to control hull shape, certify builders and register hulls would likely form a strong basis for a 2nd iteration of the IEC-12. Grandfathering of virtually all existing boats would be sensible given the proportion of skippers who would actually take part in international competition. The sticking point will likely be the elephant in the room, i.e.; the American EC-12 class, given the history of anti-international feeling that has been demonstrated there. But, hope springs eternal!! The Morgan Black competition seems to me to be a cornerstone effort that might prove a starting point.

Rod Carr
Rod

Thanks for the update..


This makes a lot of sense & now clearer..

What disappoints me is that the EC12 was the 1ST recognised International Class, and has since devolved into a sorry tale of disorganisation & Factional Infighting... (within Aust anyway).

What might be needed is a Dual Rules system.. One for Local Competition & another for International...

Other Classes run such an arrangement & it seems to work quite well.. For the Minority that wish to compete in Iternational Regattas (as in all classes) they know what they need to bring to the start line..

So in effect Grandfathering for International events may not be necessary.. Just need the Nations to agree on a Standard & everybody plays by the same rules.

As for the Elephant, perhaps it is the smaller groups that need to bend a little in order to progress the idea.

In Australia it's more about the Personality & the Lack of Transparency rather than the concept. Make a change there & the class has some chance..

Sometimes it has more to do with how you go about things rather than the Final Outcome.

Cheers

John
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