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Old Jan 02, 2013, 03:28 AM
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Question
ICE 100 head speed change rate malfunction

I have a situation with an ICE 100 on a scale heli where despite ensuring that the auto rotation feature is NOT enabled, the head speed change rate (set to 2 being a low setting) still will ramp up almost instantly between the 30 and 70 flat line set rpms in governor mode.

I have normal mode 0 0 0 0 0
idle 1 @ 30 30 30 30 30 1450rpm
idle 2 @ 70 70 70 70 70 1650 rpm.
not using idle 3 on the 100 100 100 100 100

It will work correctly going up from slow start to the first set rpm and then to the second, but if I switch down to 1450 from the 1650 and then back up it will ramp up almost instantly.

I have paid attention to correctly calibrating the throttle end points ensuring that I used a linear throttle curve before going back and setting link software back to set rpms on governor mode, and then the flat lines on Tx.
Governor and slow start appear to work correctly.

Castle Link V3.52.10 ESC V3.27
Futaba 8FFGH
Motor is an original Align BL600L and I am using 12khz and 6 pole with medium start power.

I am assuming that if the auto rotation feature is NOT ticked in the link software that the head speed change rate should never ramp up fast unless it is set to a high value?

Has anyone had similar experiences or see where I might have something wrong?

Cheers
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Last edited by Scott999; Jan 15, 2013 at 11:43 PM.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:13 AM
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It doesn't matter if you have autorotations disabled or not, the headspeed change rate is always used between any two non-zero throttle settings.

What is puzzling is that you see a difference after going backwards, then back up again. that sounds like a bug in the firmware I think. you should fill out a bug report (not sure what exactly it is called) with CC.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:52 AM
A man with too many toys
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I agree fill out a bug report. It’s probably getting close to time for a firmware update so we want to make sure that CC gets as many fixes in as possible.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:11 PM
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ICE100 auto rot feature stuck on

Thanks guys, Steve Rogers has replied to my email, so I'll let him guide me on it.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 08:18 PM
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Just thinking out aloud, here, originally I had used 4.02 firmware thinking I should be using the latest version, had this problem, and then had reverted back to 3.27 after advice to only use the latest non beta version, in effort to solve it.

Now I still have the problem - if the problem existed in 4.02, have I failed to update the firmware correctly somehow maybe? other than the update button I can't see how..........it shows that I have 3.27 as the firmware being used on the link software window .......
Is there maybe a way of clearing the ESC of all firmware thereby the bug, leaving it free to re introduce a fresh 3.27 version assuming 3.27 is all good?
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Last edited by Scott999; Jan 05, 2013 at 05:09 PM.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott999 View Post
Just thinking out aloud, here, originally I had used 4.02 firmware thinking I should be using the latest version, had this problem, and then had reverted back to 3.27 after advice to only use the latest non beta version, in effort to solve it.

Now I still have the problem - if the problem existed in 4.02, have I failed to update the firmware correctly somehow maybe? other than the update button I can't see how..........it shows that I have 3.27 as the firmware being used on the link software window .......
Is there maybe a way of clearing the ESC of all firmware thereby the bug, leaving it free to re introduce a fresh 3.27 version assuming 3.27 is all good?
I "think" that if the ESC is reporting back 3.27, then that is what you have.

Here is a suggestion for fun. Clear the ICE data logger memory. Now either remove the main and tail blades, or simple move the motor off the main gear. You just don't want to be swinging the blades. Either one of these techniques will do that.

Now enable logging the rpm and throttle input parameters in the ICE 100 at 10Hz. You can leave off the other parameters for this since they aren't important with the blades off. Spool up to I1, then switch to I2, then back to I1, and then back to I2 again.

Now download the data to your PC and see what it looks like, You are looking of course at how fast the rpm is changing when the throttle input is changed. It would be interesting to see this, and may help CC with the diagnosis of the problem.
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Last edited by Alan Hahn; Jan 06, 2013 at 10:53 AM.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 03:40 PM
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ICE100 auto rot feature stuck on

Hi Alan, thank you for your help, here is some info. I've played with it with the blades off before and the same thing happens - it all works as it should except for the noticeable sharp drop off in head speed, but that's a simple matter of not swinging blades.
Now under proper load at the field, I can get it to work on the ground sometimes and not others, so it is unreliable and quite vicious - 10T pinion! probably won't strip the main gear, but it is NOT nice.

Will set up to go past the 30 flat line and only use the 70 and 100 flat lines (Idle 1 and 2) on 8FGH to switch between speeds to see if there is any difference. As mentioned earlier there was no difference on firmware version 4.02 that I thought I was supposed to be using..........
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Last edited by Scott999; Jan 06, 2013 at 03:56 PM.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 06:22 PM
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In the plot things look like they are working just fine on the ramp ups---it is taking something like 3s (0.05min, one of the x axis ticks) to ramp from the low level to the top, and a little less to ramp down.

Remember ramping down is a bit different because most heli's have one way bearings and the motor/pinion decouples from the main gear when you command a ramp down. Also this value of head rpm isn't really the head rpm when the one-way bearing releases, it is the actual motor rpm divided by the gearing.

Anyway this plot looks "ok". Apparently this isn't what you are seeing in the air.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 09:00 PM
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ICE100 auto rot feature stuck on

Hi Alan, yes this is correct, the constant is when first plugged in - it will work every time on the way up. It is after this that it fails to ramp back up at the change rate setting of "2" as it does on the first spool up between 1450- 1650.
WITHOUT the blades however it will work correctly ??

I am not interested in experimental trying this and trying that firmware wise on a scale heli with a whole lot of guessing and risk - I want to know which version is a proven version - which is why I have it on 3.27? or this version faulty I wonder?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:20 PM
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Firmware

An up date on this head speed change rate problem. Have downloaded "Link" software version 3.53.11, and found that the ESC "firmware" version 4.02 is no longer a "beta" version.
So updated that, cleared the logger and without doing anything else and went out and tried it - it is FIXED, I could not get it to doing anything other than what it was set to. GREAT!

Now, a couple of other things have become apparent.

Firstly, the slow start appeared to be somewhat faster still on the low (2) setting.

Then when I came home and loaded the data, I only got 1 "session" out of two separate flights (two separate batts)

I cannot see all the info on along the bottom of the graph viewer window, it cuts off the Max line...........
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Last edited by Scott999; Feb 02, 2013 at 09:36 PM. Reason: updated info
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:04 PM
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ICE 100 4.02 slow start now NOT slow

Ok, it appears that when the data logging is set to 10hz a second, as opposed to 1, it will only store one session

I have set it back to 1hz, and got it to record two sessions at home without blades on.

As for the slow start - nope, it is no longer a "slow" spool up when set on low (2) even with blades on.

setting to either 1 or 0 makes no difference??
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:58 AM
A man with too many toys
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Does your FBL controller have a governor? You might want to consider using an external governor and the new CC external governor mode.


Both my Skookum SK540 and SK720 (temporarily out of production) have the capability to set the spoolup rate. You could email Skookum and ask about the slowest spoolup speed available.

.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:07 PM
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Fautly ICE 100 ESC

Thanks RC Man, however I do not have any of these items. This is a basic older Align 600E fly bar mechanics in a scale fuselage.

There was nothing wrong with the soft start function before this recent change in software/firmware.

Remember the "initial spool-up rate" setting has a range of 0-20 with the lower end the slowest ..........which is now NOT slow.

I most certainly will not be buying some "add on" to solve a problem "given" to me by Castle, where obviously the unreliable head speed change rate problem has been replaced with a problem with the slow start/spool up function.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott999 View Post
Thanks RC Man, however I do not have any of these items. This is a basic older Align 600E fly bar mechanics in a scale fuselage.

There was nothing wrong with the soft start function before this recent change in software/firmware.

Remember the "initial spool-up rate" setting has a range of 0-20 with the lower end the slowest ..........which is now NOT slow.

I most certainly will not be buying some "add on" to solve a problem "given" to me by Castle, where obviously the unreliable head speed change rate problem has been replaced with a problem with the slow start/spool up function.
GO back to 3.27 if you are having trouble with the Beta Firmware.....until engineering sorts this out.... Thanks...
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 08:36 AM
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Castle creations software malfunction

What do you mean "Beta" firmware? when we updated the link software from the 11 Jan, the 4.02 no longer had "Beta" beside it in the software tab?
I have also recently been accused of having "such finite taste" by a Castle rep over something that has nothing to do with me or anybody's "taste" for that matter.
If you check the beginning of the post where I have made an effort to be thorough in information in order to make it easy to be assisted you will see that 3.27 is where a different problem existed to begin with.
The fact is there is now a different fault with 4.02 and it does not function as it is did in 3.27 with regard to the "initial spool-up rate" setting. This function was fine in 3.27.
If there is any more nonsense on here or directly to me via email on the matter other than to assist in resolving the issue, the item will be returned for refund immediately.
I have given Castle the benefit of doubt in my decision to support them even after the ICEHV problems, but I will not tolerate unfair personal accusations regarding a product fault.....or in this case faults.
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Last edited by Scott999; Jan 17, 2013 at 10:09 AM.
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