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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:27 AM
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cityevader's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
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I was under the impression that once something is out on the web and afterwards deleted, it's "still out there" somehow. I dunno.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:33 AM
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Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
near Nijmegen, Netherlands
Joined Feb 2001
10,488 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordysoar View Post
... I flew rc sailplanes in Germany, and most other countries...you?
I have reported this thread to be closed.
Last time I flew was 20 years ago, only in the Netherlands. Helicopters only, never gliders, nor planes, nor electric. And I had the gall to post this in three (subfora). Oh dear.

Several people in this thread have asked the moderators to close this thread. Just out of curiosity, what report category?
Offensive content?
Spam?
Trolling?
Obnoxious behavior?
etc.

Vriendelijke groet Ron
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Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; Jan 03, 2013 at 09:40 AM.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:44 AM
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Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron van Sommeren View Post
Several people in this thread have asked the moderators to close this thread. For what reason?
Offensive content?
Spam?
Trolling?
Obnoxious behavior?
etc.
No, it's just that our government has become so willing to pass laws to protect us from ourselves that some people are afraid to discuss safety issues such as this death on an open forum. In their opinion, this draws undue attention to the matter. I don't believe it's a problem myself. We should be much more worried about the growing use of drones in our civilian airspace and the repercussions of regulating that market. Without the continued protection from a very few responsible politicians, we would already be seeing those proposed FAA altitude, weight and speed limits kicking in.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:53 AM
Siv
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Trinidad and Tobago, Port of Spain
Joined Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
Surely, safety is the application of common sense. But it is also the result of a continuous process of not only asking oneself "what can go wrong here?", but a more basic process of looking at everything we do with regard to how it might be made safer.
Hear hear!

Talking about safety creates awareness and also helps people push solutions that improve everyone's safety. I'm all for it.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:58 AM
No bounce, No play.
davidmc36's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityevader View Post
I was under the impression that once something is out on the web and afterwards deleted, it's "still out there" somehow. I dunno.
Depends, some search engines make archive pages. There is a time frame and number of hits that go toward making things like that happen.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 10:07 AM
Always more to Xplore
SoaringDude's Avatar
near Sacramento, CA
Joined Aug 2010
748 Posts
I'm very glad that everyone is still able to post their opinions here. It's been a good exchange so far.

Shutting this thread down would be nothing more than censorship in an area that clearly needs more awareness and attention. If a significant percentage of posters here are more concerned about bad RC soaring PR than they are about getting their field safety plan and insurance coverage in order, it's a sad commentary on priorities.

Ignoring this critically important issue won't make it disappear...

Chris B.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 10:13 AM
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DrlSgt's Avatar
United States, MI, Sterling Heights
Joined Oct 2009
126 Posts
Attacks on Gordy

So when Gordy attacks one of us it's alright but if we disagree with him we are offending you or
someone else and that's not alright, is that what you are saying?
This post is a question to post #44.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 10:20 AM
Turn down for what?
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
14,418 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cityevader View Post
I was under the impression that once something is out on the web and afterwards deleted, it's "still out there" somehow. I dunno.
There are archive engines and if somebody were to of course take screen shots of this it is still out there. But it would make finding this thread a lot more difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron van Sommeren View Post
Several people in this thread have asked the moderators to close this thread. Just out of curiosity, what report category?
I simply selected the category of "close this thread" and put in a few sentences on why I felt the thread should be closed and that I thought it should be deleted as well.

Ryan
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 10:27 AM
Turn down for what?
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoaringDude View Post
I'm very glad that everyone is still able to post their opinions here. It's been a good exchange so far.
Huh? This has been a terrible exchange. Other than a reminder to people that RC gliders is amongst the list of things that can be dangerous (and that list includes essential things such as water) there hasn't been any details exchanged here. There isn't any information for anyone to use to change a safety procedure or flying procedure because there isn't any information on the accident that has been posted.


Ryan
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 10:39 AM
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near Sacramento, CA
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwoebke View Post
Huh? This has been a terrible exchange....there hasn't been any details exchanged here. There isn't any information for anyone to use to change a safety procedure or flying procedure because there isn't any information on the accident that has been posted. Ryan
Ryan, you're jumping the gun juuuust a bit. This is still a new thread. Give people a chance to digest this terrible event. I would not be surprised to see a few new threads spawned soon that address the importance of a field safety program for both insurance and actual safety reasons.

I offered in my original post to give out more details on what I discovered regarding what AMA insurance will and will not do in fatal accidents like this. I would hazard to guess that most clubs have no idea what could happen. This thread will eventually point them in the right direction.

Chris B.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 10:39 AM
Phil.T-tailer
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Devon, UK
Joined Jun 2003
4,206 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwoebke View Post
Huh? This has been a terrible exchange. Other than a reminder to people that RC gliders is amongst the list of things that can be dangerous (and that list includes essential things such as water) there hasn't been any details exchanged here. There isn't any information for anyone to use to change a safety procedure or flying procedure because there isn't any information on the accident that has been posted.

Ryan
the information is:
- someone in Germany was killed because an RC glider hit them on the head
- this was reported in German news media
- that news has spread elsewhere in the world - as news does these days

the implication is
- how are you going to plan to stop this happening where you fly?

Phil.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 10:54 AM
Turn down for what?
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
14,418 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoaringDude View Post
Ryan, you're jumping the gun juuuust a bit.
My opinion is that this thread being started on a tiny amount of information is jumping the gun, Chris, but we can agree to disagree on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoaringDude View Post
I offered in my original post to give out more details on what I discovered regarding what AMA insurance will and will not do in fatal accidents like this..
I think that would be valuable information. I'm not sure where it is appropriate to have that conversation.

Ryan
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwoebke View Post
I'm not sure where it is appropriate to have that conversation.
Erm, how about this thread?
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 10:59 AM
Turn down for what?
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
14,418 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil.Taylor View Post
the implication is
- how are you going to plan to stop this happening where you fly?
We don't have any information to use to make any corrective actions. The best we can do is simply evaluate every aspect of what we are doing for possible safety problems. That's something we should be constantly doing already.

Flipping that a bit:

the information is:
- someone in Germany was killed because an automobile hit them on the head
- this was reported in German news media
- that news has spread elsewhere in the world - as news does these days

the implication is
- how are you going to plan to stop this happening where you drive?

Ryan
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 11:01 AM
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perttime's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Nov 2004
4,178 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil.Taylor View Post
the information is:
- someone in Germany was killed because an RC glider hit them on the head
- this was reported in German news media
- that news has spread elsewhere in the world - as news does these days

the implication is
- how are you going to plan to stop this happening where you fly?

Phil.
I like your summation.

Feel free to add questions, here's a few from me:
- Should you fly without a vigilant assistant/observer who is looking out for unexpected hazards?
- Are you sure your skills are up to flying "that plane" in "these conditions"?
- Is your plane up to flying in "these conditions"?
- Have you planned for crashing your plane in the rocks if hitting something important is otherwise likely?


On legal issues, there are big differences on how things are handled in different countries.
Where I live, I am responsible for the consequences of my actions, whereever I might be.
I hear there are places where the land owner is responsible if something goes wrong.
"Involuntary manslaughter" is, to me, defined as death caused through negligence.
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