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Old Jan 02, 2013, 08:09 PM
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United States, TX, Houston
Joined May 2003
546 Posts
Gordy wants the thread deleted

The positives of a public discussion of the death outweigh the negatives. Learning from another person's mistakes is one out of many ways we make our hobby safer.

I doubt that anybody can point to one field that has been lost because the landowner did an internet search and read about a death from a model airplane.

A landowner would probably be more impressed with the modeling publics discussion of a death, how to prevent future deaths and our safety concious AMA rules and club rules. The landowner is very likely to be more concerned about possible injuries from modelers driving vehicles on his land or starting a grass fire.

I've been flying R/C planes since 1967. All of the fields I've been involved with that we lost were due to development, encroachment of baseball diamonds and swingsets, drinking alcohol, hothead modelers pissing the landowner off, driving vehicles onto the property and leaving ruts, land converted to other uses, noise, trees being planted and other assorted nuisances to the landowner.
S. Gibson
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 08:23 PM
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Crestview, Florida
Joined Dec 2005
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After all these years I'm just sick of Gordys'
"you?".......you?
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 08:25 PM
Turn down for what?
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
14,842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
Learning from another person's mistakes is one out of many ways we make our hobby safer.
Mr. Gibson, if this thread is going to remain open I challenge you to research some more meaningful details of this accident that we can learn from then. The details posted in this thread have been minimal at best which makes this more of a gossip thread than anything. All that I can find that a person could learn from from this thread is 3 paragraphs from a general news page (translated from a different language via Google) and 2 pages from a German RC forum that has almost as little information as this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tappet View Post
After all these years I'm just sick of Gordys'
"you?".......you?
I take it as a personal challenge from him to do more things that I could be doing that I am not currently doing.

Ryan Woebkenberg
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 08:27 PM
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Who knew RCG was an echo chamber for tyrants and groupthink??
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:32 PM
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Joensuu, Finland
Joined Mar 2002
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Seems we have a cultural difference here. I grew up in an enviroment where reporting of accidents, incidents and other deviations from normal operations is highly encouraged. These reports are used to compile summaries which describe 'what happend', 'how it happened', 'why it happened' and 'how it could be prevented in the future'. Nothing more. No blame is ever assigned to anyone. These summaries are published and freely available. Names and other nonessential data are not published. Data gathered through these reports can not be used as a basis for further litigation.

I understand that a formal modeller's NTSB would be impractical, but thought that public discussion would serve the same goal.

Obviously this is not the case here. As it seems that it was my comment that triggered this discussion, I apologise, stand corrected and promise to not do it again.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:55 PM
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United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Mar 2012
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umm...why are we arguing that this thread should be closed, when we all know that once something is on the internet, it'll always be there? This whole conversation can't just be erased, so why close it?
Additionally there really isn't even any information yet. Guy dies, plane involved...no real details.

That said, I tend to agree it is information that should be "quietly disseminated", but in the current world of far-scattered folks brought intimately together via the internet, it can't just be passed around via pamphlets.

The above post represents a fabulous ideal, that may well work in the real world, but not here is ridiculous California, where a single salamander in one single location, or one single bird species, that is negatively impacted by anything at all, can turn the entire "world" upside-down, against any and all activity anywhere close to, and beyond, it.

What if a glider hit a bald eagle? All hell would break loose of course!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:27 PM
Always more to Xplore
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near Sacramento, CA
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordysoar View Post
...While news of someone getting killed in any way is fun to share --- you guys posting it will spread the killing. It will spread to the owner of my flying site, and the owners of other flying sites....and they will also say "could you send me the translation please" ...but the translation will translate into, "Model gliders are dangerous, and a liability I'm not interested in being a part of, so you are out of here!"

Please engage brains when you get the urge to post that kind of thing!!!
...
"Fun" to share? Poor choice of words methinks...

As to your suggestion that the RC community should purposely be silent when deaths or serious injuries happen at RC soaring fields or events, you appear to be the one who has it all wrong.

From my own experiences at club flying fields in the western U.S., this kind of accident is just waiting to happen, and especially so at fields where the club has no visible plan for enforcement of safe flying behaviors, safety training, etc.

To those who are legally lulled into the slumber of "the AMA insurance will cover it," think again. While the AMA insurance will cover up to $2.5M prop and medical damage per incident, it will NOT insulate those directly responsible (as well as all club officers) from an extremely expensive negligence lawsuit in the case of extreme injuries or wrongful deaths.

I would consider this sad event as a wakeup call for both individual fliers as well as RC soaring clubs to make sure you have your safety and legal bases covered. As it turns out I had to do research on this recently and would be willing to share what I learned if any are interested in the details.

Chris B.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:42 PM
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United States, CA, San Jose
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No "AMA coverage" would have satisfied me if my (one-and-only) 2 year old boy was killed during our recent outing: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1797989

I 100% agree all of the above should be discussed amongst us.
I am 100% against the media doing this for us.

The media doesn't serve "truth" (even if it gives facts)... it serves itself.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 01:09 AM
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United States, CA, Goleta
Joined Apr 2010
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Sorry guys but posting this without all the fact is dangerous to ALL flying sites. Around here there is a saying "if it's fun it will soon be or already is against the law" We lost a site over a year ago, no accident, no complaints from neighbors, no trashing the area, just a freak out by the ranch manager that "something could happen"
Jim please delete this thread and all others on this subject till all the facts are in......
James
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 01:27 AM
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can this thread even be "deleted"?
wish it could.

Should this thread be buried? (no pun intended, please)...
no.

Imagine a news article where Joe Blo (that'd be YOU) was questioned by police regarding a child molestation...but police are saying nothing until all evidence is gathered.
Perception (public opinion)=you're guilty of heinous crimes.
Reality= You're actually innocently involved with the perpetrator at the time in question, but not with the crime itself...a genuine "person of interest" but NOT the TRUE perpetrator...public opinion (based on media)= you're guilty of heinous crimes.

Thee's a huge difference between "intramural forums" and mainstream media.
True, info can be gleaned from forums, but this particular thread isn't the source. The source was a news article to begin with. And that article ended abruptly with no additional facts.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 01:38 AM
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United Kingdom
Joined Jun 2012
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I half expected this thread to go bottom up quickly...

Sorry for asking for more facts, as a human its somewhat in my nature to ask questions and want more information of this horrid accident!

I fly in an area with walkers (Im sure no one will 'Shut down' some random site half way across the world because of this)

Im not into a whole bunch of drama, im just into facts!

Ps: Who siad the comment about not sharing glider projects? I enjoy F1, but i don't have my own F1 car to show you with pit crew, am i not allowed to talk about that either? Bore off!
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 02:55 AM
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United States, CA, Goleta
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Hmmm Guess whats the first result when you type in "glider kills spectator" on google.
Let me give you a big hint, its you and you and you, All the folks saying this gossip column wont get read by a land owner, national forest representative, city/county policy maker/legal council across the world can go stick there heads were the sun don't shine.
Nothing good can come from this discussion till all the facts are in.
I put out a huge effort to talk with anyone and everyone about how great glider flying is, I've helped people from 14 year old kids to collage professors get started and stay interested when things don't go right.
We often get spectators at our sites, sometimes we have to politely ask them to not stand in our blind spots, the exit of the preferred ds line ect. NO ONE flies reckless but accidents can happen. Every glider pilot in my area is respectful of others, that saying all its going to take is one accident locally and I can see a loss of some or all of our sites to fly.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 03:44 AM
I Like Clouds Made Of Limes?
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United Kingdom
Joined Jun 2012
801 Posts
[QUOTE=Redfarren;23696343]Hmmm Guess whats the first result when you type in "Car Kills driver" on google.
Let me give you a big hint, its you and you and you, All the folks saying this gossip column wont get read by a Highway, national road representative, city/county policy maker/legal council across the world can go stick there heads were the sun don't shine.
QUOTE]


...I drove to work today on the same road someone was killed on just before christmas!

Yes, things like this happen everyday on our roads, people die on mountains but they don't close them down, ski resorts the list goes on an on!

Why not talk about something everyone can learn from?
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 07:58 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,292 Posts
I agree with Gordy and Ryan.

If anybody wants to talk about safety, open a new thread.
This is obviously a gossip thread, and the link isn't even in English.
Further, the personal attacks against Gordy really need to stop... Not everyone is doing it, But whoever is, the posts are very irritating to have to read.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 08:55 AM
Turn down for what?
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityevader View Post
can this thread even be "deleted"?
The owner(s)/manager(s) of this site can delete threads or posts if they choose to. They have done so in the past (typically for rc groups users that have posted spam). I have "reported" this thread requesting it be removed. It is of course up to them to do it or not.

Ryan
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