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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordysoar View Post
Hi guys,

You will note that there are very few gossip reports like this one in RC Groups archives....not because they haven't happened but because modelers realize the danger to the hobby...rc soaring of gossiping about them.

While news of someone getting killed in any way is fun to share --- you guys posting it will spread the killing. It will spread to the owner of my flying site, and the owners of other flying sites....and they will also say "could you send me the translation please" ...but the translation will translate into, "Model gliders are dangerous, and a liability I'm not inteterested in being a part of, so you are out of here!"

Please engage brains when you get the urge to post that kind of thing!!! Flying sites are too hard to find for us sailplane guys, harder to keep, extremely easy to lose. Leave the destruction of rc soaring to those who are not involved in the hobby.

The lame "Please post the details, so I can avoid that happening on our club field..." perpetuates the thread topic and makes it that much easier for land owners to find a Google link about the dangers of allowing sailplane guys to use their land.

If you really are so safety minded, ask for an off line email reply.

DO NOT be posting this kind of thing on any public forums.

There have been plenty of incidents that you guys have never heard about...and that's the way it should be.
Again, if you are interested in posting something about rc sailplanes, why haven't you posted anything positive, you know like your own rc sailplane projects?

Please kill this thread immediately by not posting any more PUBLIC comments, if you need more blood and guts details, do it off line, privately

Gordy
Threads like this are healthy because they promote a free and open discussion about an unpleasant aspect of our hobby. If nothing else it should remind our fellow forum-ites that:

1) Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
2) Make sure your AMA membership is up-to-date for insurance purposes
3) Make sure you understand what your AMA membership will cover (in the context of insurance)

I am sure that you, I, and the rest of the folks on this forum are concerned about how events such as this could negatively impact our hobby by inviting unwelcome Government regulatory efforts. Why is shutting down the discussion going to be a productive thing?

Quote:
I flew rc sailplanes in Germany, and most other countries...you?
I have reported this thread to be closed.
... the authority that such a person or institution holds does not have any intrinsic bearing upon whether their claims are true or not.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:26 AM
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USA, KY, Louisville
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Thank you for comfirming my post!

You are right!

This kind of thread makes land owners VERY safety concious...and we lose fields.

Those of us who fly rc sailplanes have managed to get drivers licenses, own homes, perform tasks, etc with out gossip disguised as "in the interest of safety" posts.

You took time to make your point, take equal time to post something about your current sailplane project...you know in the interest of balance :-)

I am not the enemy, I am a guy who builds and fly's rc sailplanes.Thermal, XC, F3J, DS and slope.

Gossip all you want in private emails, but never when it can become accessible to a simple web search.
Gordy
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:31 AM
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I flew rc sailplanes in Germany, and most other countries...you?


That makes you so much better then the rest of us!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:31 AM
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Ouch, my eyes, please try not to use the 'Quote' feature so recklessly.




.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:36 AM
Phil.T-tailer
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Devon, UK
Joined Jun 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perttime View Post
Posting about it is a healthy reminder that things can go terribly wrong.

Such reminders can make people more safety conscious, and avoid things from going terribly wrong at another time.
+1

Its a serious reminder about safety - not idle gossip

Phil.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 12:01 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
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Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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Respectfully Gordy, your suggestion that landowners will be made restless by the mere fact that we discuss and seek ways to mitigate safety problems with our recreation is way off base. Most landowners (and for that matter, government officials) are probably more aware of what might go wrong than many of us. They are not stupid. They can see a 4 pound object moving at 50 or 60 miles per hour and understand that, under the right circumstances, it can do a lot of damage. They understand that people occupying their property can cause a lot of damage.

And as much as we would like to believe that showing up with an AMA insurance policy will allow landowners to simply park their brains, it doesn't work that way. People who run sod farms, people who run parks all live in a real world which requires them to be aware of, and work to mitigate risks to themselves, their employees and the public. They do not carry insurance policies to allow them to park their brains -- they carry them to allow for the possibility that someone they cannot fully control might NOT follow the rules. I can assure you that every farmer, landowner and park manager not only carries insurance, but makes certain that hazards are appropriately identified and mitigated to the greatest extent possible.

I can tell you outright that if someone came up to me and wanted to use my land REGARDLESS OF ANY INSURANCE POLICY and I came to understand that they didn't have safety rules in place AND/OR that they did not have continuing procedures to monitor and continuously IMPROVE safety, I would not let them on my land.

And the last guy that I would want to have on my side in a court proceeding is someone who could honestly testify that he and/or the club did anything at all which might discourage conversations on safety related matters. THAT would be a slam dunk for a plaintiff.

Forgetting the insurance and site access issues, we owe it to ourselves and our friends to do everything we can to recognize potential safety risks and mitigate them to the greatest extent possible.

Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 12:28 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLimeClouds View Post
Can you please post the translation here? My internet is down at home and it wont work, at work!
translate...www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php/369250-Grosses-Unglück-durch-Modell-Segelflugzeug-in-Stuttgart

More posts in another German forum:
translate...www.rclineforum.de/forum/board1-allgemeines/plauderecke/353382-schwerverletzter-durch-modell/

Regards, Ron
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
And as much as we would like to believe that showing up with an AMA insurance policy will allow landowners to simply park their brains, it doesn't work that way.
+1

Well said.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:28 PM
registered weapon
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United States, MT
Joined Mar 2008
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I was giong to post to this thread immediately after it came up but deleted it ... I'm with Gordy... it's just ammo you guy's are loading to be used against you. Let it go, before Congress has another inquiry as to install even more regulation to ""help"" out the public who "can't" help themselves....PLEASE, We're all big boys w/ responsible behavior ?'?? Those that don't will pay the piper in thier own time, or just "pursuade" them to leave the premises... It was an incident that the guy has to live w/ for the rest of his days...and feels terrible about already without your criticism. Let it go man... And why does Gordy have to take heat for every/any posts that he makes? He's a nice guy... Eas-up ya pack of warriors!!

*UNsubscribed...NO Snivelin
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 05:15 PM
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Joined Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwmtrubrit View Post
This is really tragic, and although this article appears to be a "click on the button" translation, I find it hard to understand how an involuntary manslaughter charge would come from it. As already brought up, there are some unknowns here, but the article mentions a wind gust, so who on earth knows.
I guess if we have spectators at our local flying clubs, we need to be on our toes and keep them well back from launch/take off and landing areas. Happy New Year, and fly safe.

From what I understood, and I could be wrong, in cases such as these, as a default, the investigation starts as an Inv MS, but, upon getting all the facts, could be changed to something else.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 07:05 PM
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Modesto Calfornia
Joined Feb 2004
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German man killed

As a Brit I recall back in the late seventies I young man was hit by a metal turn around post suffering severe head injuries, this was at a sanctioned SMAE event, the young man in the wrong place at the wrong time.
There was an investigation by SMAE that led to sanctions which included the diameter of fuselage nose point radius, which this model probably complied with but as argued at the time does'nt matter a whole heck a beans when you get hit.
Acidents happen but they are not common place. The notion put forward by Gordy, is one I can not disagree more with, sure if people go out in their districts with large signs drawing attention to this most unfortuate incident perhaps a couple of land owners may pause before allowing poeple to fly on their land, but I doubt that they are reading this forum.
David AKA The Brit
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by flystoolow View Post
Ouch, my eyes, please try not to use the 'Quote' feature so recklessly.
Please accept my sincere apologies...
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 07:17 PM
Taranis Tyro...
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United Kingdom, England, Hitchin
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenatorLTFO View Post
I flew rc sailplanes in Germany, and most other countries...you?

That makes you so much better then the rest of us!
Quote:
Originally Posted by flystoolow View Post
Ouch, my eyes, please try not to use the 'Quote' feature so recklessly.

This forum has been so much more pleasant to peruse now that Gordysoar's posts are all 1/2" long and blank.

BTW, I'm the one who has flown with more people, more places, more times, in more Countries, with better planes........than ol' Gordy.
I just did a quick search and it appears Gordy loves to bash fellow forum members with his "show us your medals" act - it looks like he holds the world record for ending posts with "You?"! Here's just a few recent examples of his beguiling delivery...I've read several of his RCSD articles and don't for a moment doubt his knowledge or experience, but the total absence of humility in many of his posts is not doing him any favours. I look forward to being informed that I lack the necessary skills and experience to hold this view though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
Respectfully Gordy, your suggestion that landowners will be made restless by the mere fact that we discuss and seek ways to mitigate safety problems with our recreation is way off base. Most landowners (and for that matter, government officials) are probably more aware of what might go wrong than many of us. They are not stupid. They can see a 4 pound object moving at 50 or 60 miles per hour and understand that, under the right circumstances, it can do a lot of damage. They understand that people occupying their property can cause a lot of damage.
I totally agree. Besides, in the real world do we really believe landowners idly trawl RC forums in the hope of finding information on fatal crashes as Gordy informs us, or do they find out by chance when reading a paper or watching the news? Let me see...
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 07:44 PM
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Like Gordy I also clicked the button to submit my opinion to the mods to close this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fudi50 View Post
The notion put forward by Gordy, is one I can not disagree more with, sure if people go out in their districts with large signs drawing attention to this most unfortuate incident perhaps a couple of land owners may pause before allowing poeple to fly on their land, but I doubt that they are reading this forum.
Here is a much more likely scenario. There is a public piece of land that is either dedicated to aero modeling or multi purpose and allows aeromodeling. Some person or group covets that land and would rather see it used by some other activity. Or maybe exclusively used for some other activity. This person googles model airplane and accident or model airplane and fatality and finds threads like this to use as ammo when this person goes to the person(s) to convince them to change the usage model of the land they covet.

I'm not saying that discussions on safety shouldn't happen. And neither is Gordy. I'm just saying we have no details on this accident other than an article in general media. Also the best place to discuss safety is in clubs. Peer pressure can be contagious and if we strive to set a culture of safety peer pressure that's probably the best thing we can do.

Me personally yesterday I flew my electric Allegro. As I frequently do I flew from a multi purpose facility but made a consciousnesses choice to fly my model in the most appropriate area of the facility and in a safe fashion.

Ryan
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 07:53 PM
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United States, MI, Sterling Heights
Joined Oct 2009
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The post cop has spoken....................

From my personal experience and from further reading, it looks like this Gordysoar likes to, on occasion, go off on those that post anything that in his opinion is not quite to his liking, and he can be quite rude about it. This forum, in my oppinion, (and I am entitled to it whether you agree or not), is a great place to post these types of accidents as they remind us all that we need to be extra vigilant when it comes to safety while flying any rc aircraft.

I even put my name to this post so it doesn't look like I'm hiding behind my words.

R.C. Shoupe
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