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Old Jan 01, 2013, 06:55 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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South-west France
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Originally Posted by cpmcgraw View Post
Thanks for the comparison, John. Until finding this forum (and Outerzone...) I had never heard of the Envoy before.

Here's a question for the EP flyers listening in: My initial pass through the land of electric motors suggests a [Tower Hobbies] "RimFire 250" with a 2C LiPo and an 8A ESC. The numbers seem to indicate this would be in the ballpark with the old TD .051 or .074 engines, and that appears to be "roughly" in the same range as the ED Bee's listed on the plan. Does this sound realistic, or do I need to go higher on the power?
For a model of this size and type I would be looking for something like 60 to 80 watts, so assuming you will be running at,say, 8 amps from a 2S that should be close. The TD.049 would be considerably more powerful, correctly propped, than an E.D. Bee which was a "sport" 1 cc diesel.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 07:53 PM
Experienced Balsa Mangler
United States, AL, Tillmans Corner
Joined Oct 2012
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
cpmcgraw, The plan you are using looks like the earlier version of the plan.
The Envoy plan at outerzone has since been cleaned and "straightened" a bit.
If you stay with that plan check longerons and spars to be sure they are straight.

Paul
Paul, thanks for mentioning that. I do have a copy of the "improved" plan, so I'll compare them. The stab and rudder are pretty much new design, so I don't think I have much to worry with there. But I'll check the wings and fuselage.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 08:02 PM
Experienced Balsa Mangler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer
For a model of this size and type I would be looking for something like 60 to 80 watts, so assuming you will be running at,say, 8 amps from a 2S that should be close. The TD.049 would be considerably more powerful, correctly propped, than an E.D. Bee which was a "sport" 1 cc diesel.
I'm certainly not looking for 3D performance out of this model, so this might be my power combination of choice. My eyesight isn't good enough for anything too fast, neither are my fingers, so if it'll fly slow and steady, I'll be happy.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:47 AM
RFJ
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Northern Ireland
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Just for interest here is the original Envoy article from January 1952 Aeromodeller.

Ray
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:11 PM
Experienced Balsa Mangler
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Day 2 -- Wing Ribs:

I've spent the entire morning fighting with Inkscape and GIMP over resolution issues between the two, as well as my own lack of attention to measuring points...

I finally got the rib patterns to a level of acceptability, with a smooth transition between each rib and getting the spar openings lined up. Pattern Sheet 3 [attached] shows the results of all this torment...
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:12 PM
Experienced Balsa Mangler
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Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
Just for interest here is the original Envoy article from January 1952 Aeromodeller.

Ray
Was this the entire article, or just the first page?
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:55 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmcgraw View Post
Was this the entire article, or just the first page?
That was it apart from a reduced scale reproduction of the plan - normally in those days, unless it was an exceptionally complex model, one page of text and one of plan was all you got in Aeromodeller. Makes me smile when I look at current mags which take five pages to cover installing the receiver in an RTF foam model!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 04:14 PM
Experienced Balsa Mangler
United States, AL, Tillmans Corner
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Day 2 -- Wing Ribs!

After finally defeating the Gimpscape dragon, I managed to get all the ribs cut and ready for assembly. Took about two hours to do the cutting, including cutting the patterns out and tracing around them.

Photo 1 is my wing rib stack. Photo 2 is the mess left behind.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 07:54 PM
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It would be interesting to weigh the components you've cut out and the scrap pile to see just how much wood gets wasted!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 08:02 PM
Edubarca
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Colombia, South America
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Happy new year to all from sunny and warm Colombia!!!
The Envoy design by Cyril Shaw, was a kit I made in the 60s through the 90s. It was called the "Huracán" (Hurricane in Spanish) and it sold extremely well. Most people installed Cox .049 Babe Bees, very popular at that time. This model won several free flight sport contests. I myself built and flew one free flight. Second flight: It flew away, no more Envoy or Huracán. It is now in my list of "Must build" naturally, passing to my next reincarnation due to the extremely long list of Must Builds. .See you chaps!!!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:25 PM
Experienced Balsa Mangler
United States, AL, Tillmans Corner
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Originally Posted by kkphantom View Post
It would be interesting to weigh the components you've cut out and the scrap pile to see just how much wood gets wasted!
As a quick estimate, I'd say at least as much as actually gets used. I haven't been too careful about laying the parts out on the sheet; I could reduce the scrap piles if I took a little more time with placements.

If I had my copy of Corel Draw 10 up and running, I know how to lay out a sheet for laser cutting and could probably get the waste down to less than 20%.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 08:09 PM
Experienced Balsa Mangler
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Day 3 -- Fuselage Formers...

Today only had time for a little pattern creation with Inkscape. I managed to get most of the fuselage formers drawn out, but there are still a couple left.

Important Note: The plans (both versions from Outerzone) are good, but not accurate. The formers are not completely symetrical across their centerlines. I'm having to create a half-pattern for each, then duplicate the work and flip it to attach to the opposite side. It's tedious and time-consuming, but worth it.

I'm also taking some time to update my main computer from Linux Mint 13 to 14.1. This was a hold-out for the last month as I have far too much data on it to risk having it deleted. I'm opting for an "install alongside" method, so I'll have both 13 and 14 available. Being a linux-head, I've already installed 14 on my other machines (except one Win7 machine, which has to stay that way for a little while longer)...
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 12:55 AM
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Are you going to keep the main undercarriage in its original position? If so you may have some difficulty taking off.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 05:59 AM
Experienced Balsa Mangler
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Originally Posted by Monza Red View Post
Are you going to keep the main undercarriage in its original position? If so you may have some difficulty taking off.
I'm opting for the taildragger style, since I'll be flying from grass. This was a plan option, so it'll be authentic. What I haven't decided on is whether to use a tail wheel, of just a simple skid.
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 08:29 AM
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Having had a good look at the plan on outerzone, the flying surfaces on the Envoy bear an uncanny resemblance to the KK Gipsy. The upper and lower wing spars have been transposed but you could put the Gipsy's wing and tail on an Envoy and not tell the difference.
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