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Old Jan 17, 2013, 11:41 PM
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United States, TN, Knoxville
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We are going to have to create a thread for quad memes and jargon eventually.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 11:57 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
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Originally Posted by TheObstacle View Post
...
The next thing I tried was binding the Syma transmitter to the receiver that came with the 9x, and plugging a servo into various channels. By doing this, I found that the flip button did something to channel 5, but not what I expected. When I press the flip button, the servo turns jerkily in one direction and keeps trying to turn when it hits the end of its travel.

Okay, time to bring out the oscilloscope. This is where it gets odd... When the flip button isn't pressed, channel 5 has a normal-looking PWM output with pulses of about 1.5ms at intervals of about 20ms. (The normal range for controlling a PWM servo seems to be pulses of between 1 and 2ms duration, so this is roughly centered.)

When I press the "flip" button, the output changes to pulses of approximately 9.5ms, at intervals of about 83ms, or ~12Hz. AFAIK, this is completely outside the normal range to control a PWM servo, which explains why the servo gets so confused.

I don't know enough about radios or servos to really understand what this means, but I'm hoping someone here can make some sense of it.
Here is a thought/question: from what I have read, and seen on the oscilloscope (to get a DSM2 module to run off of a Tx training port), on each frame/ interval, the Tx sends all the channel information in sequence one after the other. One can see this sequential "PPM" signal at a training port (if the Tx has such a port).
So at a given time, all the channels need to be sent at that same interval.
You mentioned that when you press the "flip" button, the channel 5 output changes from about a "normal" 20ms interval to a really slow 83ms interval.
This "should", I believe, also mean that when the flip button gets pressed, all the other channels (include 1 to 4) will also get sent at the same slow 83ms interval as channel 5.
I am wondering if you are seeing this on the oscilloscope. Thanks.

LATER ASIDE: As I have mentioned earlier, I have also "Kosemmed". In my case, it was recovering from a manual flip with an mQx in a windy day using GWS props (makes the quad more responsive, but also harder for me to control). Because of the combination of the factors above, my quad took off and got stuck high up (about 60 feet/ 20 meters) into a nearby tree. It hit the tree branches with sufficient force to crack part of my home-made canopy.
It took about a week of windy days for it to come back.

EVEN LATER: If pressing the "flip" button leaves channels 1 to 4 at a "normal" ~20ms interval while increasing channel 5's interval to ~83ms, one possibility is that the main channel transmission interval is ~20ms (and send channel 1 to 4 information at each interval), but only send channel 5 information about every fourth 20ms interval (so then channel 5 only shows up once every ~80ms).
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Last edited by flying-llama; Jan 18, 2013 at 04:12 PM. Reason: Also Kosemmed. Only send channel 5 info once every four 20ms intervals when "flipping"?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 01:21 AM
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United States, CA, Costa Mesa
Joined Mar 2006
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Got my X1 today,

Battery voltage was 3.85V out of the box,

After charging was 4.283V, W*F!! (measured with Fluke calibrated true RMS DMM)

After an enjoyable great easy stable flight in the living room, flew to LVC, battery voltage was 3.60V (reasonable)

Bottom line the X1 was very stable and fun! Highly recommended.

Now to play around with the er9x (thanks for the help guys!)
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by whitet777 View Post
I was thinking about my slingshot too.
I have a wrist rocket with a fishing reel attached that I use to shoot antennas up into trees (I'm a Ham). I fire a 1/2 oz sinker with fishing line attached over a branch, let it fall to the ground, tie on a length of Dacron rope, and reel it back in over the branch. Might give you some options for shaking the branch without damaging the copter.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 11:41 AM
rather fly, but this'll do
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Portland, OR
Joined Feb 2008
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You could quickly spend more $ on PVC pipe, tennis balls, twine etc than the $35 you spent on this quad!
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 01:50 PM
Learning more each day....
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United States, RI, Portsmouth
Joined Nov 2012
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Originally Posted by rdandrea View Post
I have a wrist rocket with a fishing reel attached that I use to shoot antennas up into trees (I'm a Ham). I fire a 1/2 oz sinker with fishing line attached over a branch, let it fall to the ground, tie on a length of Dacron rope, and reel it back in over the branch. Might give you some options for shaking the branch without damaging the copter.
Neat! I wondered which was the best way!

I was thinking a cheapo bow and arrow.......but this might be better.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:19 PM
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United States, OR, Portland
Joined Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by TheObstacle View Post

I've since picked up a 9x radio (flashed with the er9x firmware) to run the hobby-grade quad, and of course I've got it bound to the Syma as well. The lack of a flip button was irritating me, so I decided to dig into it a bit.

The first thing I tried was assigning inputs to all the channels on the 9x and seeing if any of them acted like the flip button. No luck there.

Then I went searching on the internet, and found this thread. Lots of cool stuff here, but not the answer I was looking for.

The next thing I tried was binding the Syma transmitter to the receiver that came with the 9x, and plugging a servo into various channels. By doing this, I found that the flip button did something to channel 5, but not what I expected. When I press the flip button, the servo turns jerkily in one direction and keeps trying to turn when it hits the end of its travel.

Okay, time to bring out the oscilloscope. This is where it gets odd... When the flip button isn't pressed, channel 5 has a normal-looking PWM output with pulses of about 1.5ms at intervals of about 20ms. (The normal range for controlling a PWM servo seems to be pulses of between 1 and 2ms duration, so this is roughly centered.)

When I press the "flip" button, the output changes to pulses of approximately 9.5ms, at intervals of about 83ms, or ~12Hz. AFAIK, this is completely outside the normal range to control a PWM servo, which explains why the servo gets so confused.

I don't know enough about radios or servos to really understand what this means, but I'm hoping someone here can make some sense of it.
After watching your video, I'm pretty sure we live in the same city. Subarus everywhere!

I did the same experiment minus the oscilloscope. I noticed that when pressing the flip button and trying to yaw, the servo I hooked up didn't move at all. I'm not sure what's going on. If this could be replicated in ER9X and put on the trainer switch, that would be way cool.


@thunnus: Here are the leds I have been using that come with resistors and photos of them soldered to my X1 board. I used a little tiny wire for each connection and hooked them up in parallel to the main power pads on the board. I got these at Tammie's Hobies in Beaverton OR. Looks like the website on the packaging is still up.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:40 PM
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United States, OR, Portland
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Originally Posted by TheObstacle View Post
Curiouser and curiouser...

On a whim, I tried plugging the servo into the other channels (6 - 8), and in each case it jitters in an odd rhythm which changes when the "flip" button is pushed. The scope doesn't show a consistent pulse width or spacing for these channels either -- it seems they vary over time, possibly in a repeating (or mostly-repeating) pattern.

Is it possible the Syma/v929 transmitter is using a different encoding for channels above 4? Just checked out the er9x source repo to try and educate myself a bit more. (I write software for a living, although I haven't done any work with microcontrollers yet... this may change that. )
Does this mean you might be able to see what the firmware is and possibly understand it?
If you are reluctant to start messing with your quad, I will gladly offer mine up as a sacrifice to find out the secrets of the Syma engineers.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by rdandrea View Post
I have a wrist rocket with a fishing reel attached that I use to shoot antennas up into trees (I'm a Ham). I fire a 1/2 oz sinker with fishing line attached over a branch, let it fall to the ground, tie on a length of Dacron rope, and reel it back in over the branch. Might give you some options for shaking the branch without damaging the copter.
I like this. Is the fishing reel system homemade or did you buy it? I was thinking about just having a lot of slack by my feet and letting loose. I hope my foot isn't caught in it?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by whitet777 View Post
I like this. Is the fishing reel system homemade or did you buy it?
Well, you can buy them, but they are ridiculously expensive. See https://ezhang.com/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=1

I made mine. Got four small (maybe 1/2" or 3/4") hose clamps and clamped a piece of 3/8" dowel to the frame of the Wrist Rocket with two of them, and clamped an old abandoned spincasting reel from the garage to the dowel with the other two. Everybody must have one or more laying around from when the kids were little. You want to use heavy enough line to lift the rope, about 15 or 20 lb test.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 04:49 PM
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Joined Jan 2013
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LED lights & stock charger with OCP from s107 battery

So, here are photos of my syma X1. Those 4 LED lights (green on the front, and red on the rear) I added few minutes ago, and the one in the middle is from s107g (red-blue), connected directly to the battery on the board. Other ones are connected in parallel with 200ohm resistors also to the battery on the board.
They are not so bright like the one from the s107, but i hope it's bright enough to see them in the daylight for better orientation.

Also, you can see how the OCP from s107 battery looks like, and how did i connected it to the stock USB charger. The same thing is in the X1 stock battery, so I don't see why that wouldn't work with the turnigy nano-tech.
I did ordered v929 charger, but it's still on the way.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by marko87 View Post
So, here are photos of my syma X1. Those 4 LED lights (green on the front, and red on the rear) I added few minutes ago, and the one in the middle is from s107g (red-blue), connected directly to the battery on the board. Other ones are connected in parallel with 200ohm resistors also to the battery on the board.
They are not so bright like the one from the s107, but i hope it's bright enough to see them in the daylight for better orientation.

Also, you can see how the OCP from s107 battery looks like, and how did i connected it to the stock USB charger. The same thing is in the X1 stock battery, so I don't see why that wouldn't work with the turnigy nano-tech.
I did ordered v929 charger, but it's still on the way.
Are those 600mah nano-techs you're flying your X1 with? If so how are the flight times? Have some on the way and with my weight-mods i'm anticipating good flight times. My current AUW with hubsan board, leds and the stock 350mah lipo is 53grams.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by specgie View Post
Are those 600mah nano-techs you're flying your X1 with? If so how are the flight times? Have some on the way and with my weight-mods i'm anticipating good flight times. My current AUW with hubsan board, leds and the stock 350mah lipo is 53grams.
Yes, it's turnigy nano-tech 600mah. The flight times are much longer, I didn't measure it but it's obviously longer. Not sure about the weight of my X1 since I do not have precise scale
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 07:07 PM
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Poulsbo, Wa
Joined Sep 2004
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Well. that was fun. Was taking video and it fell out of the air at about 50 feet.

Any idea on how to get a little more range. Since their is no real antenna on the TX, holding it up/ down sideways? Rx antennae orientation?

Had one flight up maybe 100 feet but this last one no go.

Thanks

Bill

The last 5 seconds are fun!!

SYMA x1 Fall from sky (1 min 8 sec)
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 07:28 PM
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United States, OR, Portland
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Originally Posted by flying-llama View Post
You mentioned that when you press the "flip" button, the channel 5 output changes from about a "normal" 20ms interval to a really slow 83ms interval.
This "should", I believe, also mean that when the flip button gets pressed, all the other channels (include 1 to 4) will also get sent at the same slow 83ms interval as channel 5.
I am wondering if you are seeing this on the oscilloscope. Thanks.
I did put the scope on the other channels, and I don't _think_ their rate changed when I pressed the flip button, but I'm not 100% sure. I'll throw it on the scope again this weekend and double check.
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