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Old Mar 15, 2013, 02:53 PM
Flying one day at a time....
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United Kingdom, Pardshaw
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Originally Posted by Tom Wright View Post
Dave ,

Now for a question ( hope you don't mind this interrogation) we have ways......!
Did you feel you were able to establish a slow to medium cruise speed ,or was the model tearing about sufficiently quickly to make you anxious?

To be continued. Oh I sent a PM.

Tom.
Thanks Tom. A very good question indeed.

During today: at no time did I feel I had established a slow to medium cruise speed. And yes, the model did seem to me to be tearing around sufficiently quickly to make me feel anxious. You'd have to say I wasn't really in control of it most of the time!
(only a 9 inch prop too!!!)

Dave
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 03:08 PM
Lets break some props :D
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Dave ...you still a hero to me..

Hey, Tom will get you back out to fly again, you know that don't you ?

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Old Mar 15, 2013, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pardshaw View Post
Thanks Tom. A very good question indeed.

During today: at no time did I feel I had established a slow to medium cruise speed. And yes, the model did seem to me to be tearing around sufficiently quickly to make me feel anxious. You'd have to say I wasn't really in control of it most of the time!
(only a 9 inch prop too!!!)

Dave
Dave .

This is the first big clue to why you found it so difficult. How about a launch, climb straight ahead, level the nose and immediately start to progressively reducing throttle until a nice gentle straight ahead decent to the ground is achieved. This will give you a true feel for for how throttle needs to be used to check sink, without having to worry about turns.
High speed turns are an absolute no! for a newbie,and as it's to early to introduce rudder turns,so the only way to go is get the speed down , hanging the tail down,nudge in some roll ,but not with any significant bank angle as this is when over controlling can get you inverted even!
If the model is definitely in trim and responding well to roll inputs ,then tip weights can be added to slow the follow rate ( time it takes for the rotor to respond to pilot input) .
I also feel the wider rotors will help you along the way ,but a little more forward and left trim may be needed to fly these.

Tom.
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 06:18 PM
Flying one day at a time....
pardshaw's Avatar
United Kingdom, Pardshaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wright View Post
Dave .

How about a launch, climb straight ahead, level the nose and immediately start to progressively reducing throttle until a nice gentle straight ahead decent to the ground is achieved.

Tom.
Hi Tom,

That all sounds very logical. And, better still - it sounds do-able. I like the idea!

However, I'm taking a day or two off, though - its been intense! After getting back from our granddaughter's 7th birthday party I'm starting to feel knackered!

I've stripped the CF-Lite right down & inspected it. Boy, that things taken a real battering. It looks like its been dragged through a hedge backwards. The last "landing" was into a saturated patch of liquid mud. The motor had mud in it - right up to the rear bearings. Quick strip down & rinse under the tap (the motor components, not me) sorted that.

The rotor blades have impact damage on leading and trailing edges, but might be repairable. There are signs of a split under the mast frame. I think the repeated impacts finally forced the U/C to start to twist under the mast. Interesting side-ways forces at work. Not easily repaired.

A rebuild job.


I like the idea of short climb, level outs, graceful descents and learning to use the throttle correctly. Sounds good..... Thank you Tom. And yes, all my turns were far, far too fast for comfort and they were probably over controlled. Ugh.......

Dave
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 08:17 PM
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Dave .

I think you have earned a break ,but during reflection do not underestimate how well you have actually done, a minute in the air tells me that could be soon turned into more. ,but one circuit and a landing after some straight ahead work will I think be most constructive ,as landing is one of the easiest tasks.
In theory you did not stand a chance , but now you are starting to prove other wise so we are determined to see the lowest time pilot ever to fly a AG .......when you're good and ready to have another go. .

Tom.
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 10:15 PM
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Yep. I think Dave is the only one since I started in on this thread who has actually flown a CF (other than Tom of course.) We've all been building and acquiring and experimenting with bits here and there.

I've cut my balsa blanks to size on the table saw for the rotor blades. They are about 1.5 mm too thin for the recommended max thickness at 1/3 chord (but it's what I had on hand.) I was considering laminating additional thickness, but I think I'll just go with what it is. It'll make sanding a lot easier....

When the blades are done, I'll do a mock-up of my experimental "ultra-cheap-flapping-flex-hinge-plate" idea I've had in my head.

Don
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Old Mar 16, 2013, 04:25 AM
Lets break some props :D
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Originally Posted by pardshaw View Post
However, I'm taking a day or two off, though - its been intense!
Dave
I's always good to re-focus with a break
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Old Mar 16, 2013, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Kalkan View Post
Yep. I think Dave is the only one since I started in on this thread who has actually flown a CF (other than Tom of course.) We've all been building and acquiring and experimenting with bits here and there.

Don
Hi Don.

The MK1 MK2 and SFH have been built and flown by quite a large number of guys over on the RCME model flying forum , I only started posting on here this year, and by this time the Auto-G had hit the head lines as a ARTF , so my thread here has been picked by the builders and experimenters that had not already seen or built a Crane Fly or did not find the ARTF route suited their requirements.
I must say you guys are great to talk to and it goes a long way to have a renewed faith in human nature as the older I get the more cynical and despairing I get about the state of the world . So a big thank you all for that .

Tom.
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Old Mar 16, 2013, 10:36 AM
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Tom, Your presence here is much appreciated. Though I am struggling with learning to fly the Auto G your flying tips really help me a lot Thanks, Aero
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Old Mar 16, 2013, 12:27 PM
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Tom, Your presence here is much appreciated. Though I am struggling with learning to fly the Auto G your flying tips really help me a lot Thanks, Aero
Thanks Aero ,your acknowledgement is appreciated. .

Tom.
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Old Mar 16, 2013, 05:05 PM
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Hi Guys,

not posted for a while because to be honest, nothing has happened of any interest!! Except for a manic week at work and pretty cold (minus 10 – 15 at night) so no flying and not been ‘fiddling’ in the evening.

Pretty sad to hear about your latest exploits Dave, I really thought that with your Baby fixed that you would make the breakthrough, it would probably only take a few successful turns and a bit of safety height to make it click. I fully concur with Tom that you really need to establish a comfortable ‘cruse’ and be able to keep that speed without thinking about it.

Now, I thinking about it in the bath (sorry if the idea of me in the bath scares or upsets anybody) and I am wondering if the Crane would be more stable in turns (which is where you say you lost it Dave) if you only used the rudder (which you don’t have) to turn?????? Going back to ‘normal’ fixed wing (not Nutballs) models the rudder produces a flatter turn at moderate speed (providing that the dihedral is correct). Now, before anyone posts, yes, I do know that a rudder works due to the increased lift on the faster moving wing creating a rolling effect but, the initial effect is to create yaw. This yaw is probably enough to make the Crane change it’s direction without altering the disk angle too much which may well result in a more constant airspeed????

I would have liked to have gone out and flown a full flight just using rudder to see if this is a viable idea but the weather is against me at the moment. If rudder only turns are flatter and do not cause the nose to drop it may be worth you (Dave) connecting the servo rudder to your primary control stick (right stick in mode 1 or 2) and to put aileron (rotor head) on the other stick until you get used to flying her. It would look something like this:- launch, climb to 3 mistakes high height, throttle back to cruise speed and then just use the rudder to steer her around and throttle to climb and sink. Leave the elevator alone and only use the aileron to straighten her up if necessary. Also, try to fly figure 8s against the wind so that you are always looking at the tail and you will always be turning into wind. Do you use Expo??? I just checked and I have – 30 set in my Futaba 9TCP (the – denotes less movement around the centre as opposed to Spektrum where – means more movement) which make for a pretty comfortable ride.

Over to Tom and the rest of you.
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Old Mar 16, 2013, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalkan View Post
Yep. I think Dave is the only one since I started in on this thread who has actually flown a CF (other than Tom of course.) We've all been building and acquiring and experimenting with bits here and there.

Don
and me but I don’t think that it counts because my blades go the wrong way round!!

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Old Mar 16, 2013, 05:56 PM
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Hi Paul.

Don't envy your -15 at night we are moaning like mad about -3 .
We have to be brutally honest here abouts Dave's chances? , but I think he did in fact do remarkably well , and will succeed before to long..
I don't disagree about your suggestions with regard to use of rudder .but the students I have helped to fly AGs have done it with rotor roll only . Most would say that using rudder as a primary means to change direction often needs some coordinated input from roll and elevator, which can complicate things further.
I think a "B" rated pilot with a good few hours would be fine with four channel ,but a low time newbie could well find it difficult.
As you know if the model is well set up with a low rotor loading ,rotor turns can be pretty flat ,but only if the speed is reasonably low , which brings me back to throttle management which IMHO is the first phase to master .
I believe Dave made his blades , and I am not absolutely sure if they are based on the C-30 or the the 2" chord Jobie's . Plenty of blade area properly set up, and flight in good conditions, is going to make things easier. But some on location help should be the shortest route to success.

Like you Paul I have been frustrated with the weather ,other wise I would have been out there looking for more answers that might help Dave .

Thanks for the input ,good to hear from you .

Tom.
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Old Mar 16, 2013, 06:59 PM
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It is always very difficult to strike the happy medium between encouraging people and being realistic. I try to never underestimate the ‘will to achieve’ which Dave obviously has and I think that realistically if he can fly a Nutball that he can master the Crane. However, as I have previously posted, after 25 years of flying pretty much everything that can fly I did find the single rotor Autogyros a bit of challenge for the first 2 – 3 flights so I can understand Dave’s problems.

So, how do we get the ‘Baby AG pilot’ his wings???? I still think that he can do it but all of this is highlighting the fact that it really is incredibly difficult to learn to fly, regardless of what type of model, alone.
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Old Mar 17, 2013, 03:38 AM
Lets break some props :D
joseico90's Avatar
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Joined Jun 2008
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true..

Hey Dave, maybe we can get together and go fly next time you're down here, get the pink foam as well?
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