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Old Jan 08, 2013, 07:24 AM
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Yep... just noticed that too.
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 01:24 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
United States, CA, Claremont
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Originally Posted by Vantagepoint View Post
Just another point to consider when buying from the RCU Marketplace, always check the seller's rating, the date he joined RCU, and read some of the feedback buyers from that particular individual may have written. Unless a person is highly recommended by someone well-known in the hobby, steer clear of anyone who has just recently joined (couple of months as member) RCU. I am sure you know this, but don't hesitate to ask for more detail pictures of the model being considered (pictures from all angles including the some internal shots of the airframe).
Yep, I'm all over that This to me is like buying a car. While I might purchase a plane from a highly reputable modeler out of state, I would much prefer to see the plane in person, and better yet, watch it fly. I may be suspicious by nature, but my starting assumption with any second purchase is that there is a very good reason the seller wants it out the door.
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 01:32 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
United States, CA, Claremont
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Originally Posted by HarryC View Post
WHOA!

So which one is true TTRotary?
Why both are Harry. You have heard of electric flight, have you not?

My biggest power setup currently is 7S on a Power 110 (the sea fury on the left) and there are bigger builds coming, including my very nice ESM Spitfire which will fly on 10 or 12S. Believe me, these birds can haul the mail. You see, I like flying, not fiddling with glow plugs, needle valves, and wiping stinky residue off my nice model. And the birds can be hangared inside the house. What is good for my wife is good for me, and I am lucky that she puts up with my various hobbies. Here are 2 of my planes...
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 05:11 PM
"Take Off" eh!
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Canada, ON, Beeton
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Nice Birds there TT
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by TTRotary View Post
Flying Tiger - I also think a fast big EDF is a good interim step. The Habu is a nice plane but would I be better served with a tougher landing jet like the Efite Fhantom to at least learn energy management? Just wondering.
I could not agree more with this post. Since you do have some stick time on some more advanced larger warbirds you have an understanding of what many have talked about here.

The Habu is a wonderful flying airplane. I think the 32 size fiberglass ship will show you how EDF's act - and what it is like to fly a plane with no propeller wash over the surfaces - it is very different! Plus it fits in your budget. You will be over a grand in this plane and then you can decide if Jets are for you.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...df-arf-EFL8075

Watch the video - it is a pretty impressive go fast jet - and that is all on the stock power system. Do a search the go faster boys are getting that Habu going pretty fast. And best of all watch how slow you can land it - a great feature for a new jet jockey. Don't dismiss the Habu - it is a VERY impressive airplane and pretty darn quick stock, even faster with better setups.

I have not flown the Phantom - but the Habu will be faster and you can always do a scale paint job on it.

You may just find they are not your cup of tea - the small electric Jets are pretty fast and can tell you for about 1/4th the cost if the Turbines might be in your future.

When you fly that Habu and watch it eat up the 500ft runway in a hurry you will understand what these gents are saying.

Don't forget the high end EDF's are approaching Turbine speed too. Take a look here for the high end of EDF jets.

http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/electric.html

The E Bandit is pretty quick and less $$$ and no turbine waiver. He also has some scale kits that use the EVF on 12s. Check out the scale paint jobs on those sport jets.

Mike
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 08:15 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
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Good advice Mike, and I will definitely take that interim step. The Eflite Phantom is said to have the glide path of a brick and has high wing loading (how's that for full-scale realism ) and is said to have to be flown to the ground - that is why it came to mind.

I know EDF performance is getting close, but there is something about a turbine that is just absolute coolness - I love that sound. And you get to tell people "I own a jet plane" with a straight face. Pretty immature I guess but those are key reasons.

Vettster - thx and also for your info. I'll get back to you on what you asked for.
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 08:34 PM
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I don't agree with the EDF step at all. There is more than speed with a turbine. Heck... I bet I fly under 100 mph most of the time. Besides... with an EDF... you have INSTANT throttle response... and you can have Zero thrust when you pull the throttle down.


To me... saying to build a big, high power EDF is a waste of $$$ that could be going into a turbine airframe.

Now... if you want to own a high end EDF... then go for it. But, it's not a prerequisite to a turbine.


It's the same thing I tell guys that think they are fast on a sport bike. "Any Jack-a$$ can hold the throttle open and go fast. It takes a good rider to know what to do, and not die." (substitute Pilot for Rider)
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TTRotary View Post
I know EDF performance is getting close, but there is something about a turbine that is just absolute coolness - I love that sound. And you get to tell people "I own a jet plane" with a straight face. Pretty immature I guess but those are key reasons.
There is no question nothing sounds like that - but you get to pay for that through the nose. I had a buddy with a Turbine (just one) and he had so much in it - he was petrified to fly it. Finally mustered enough courage to fly it (candidly he was a crappy pilot) and he just would shake every time. Finally had a turbine flame out and LOST the model in a lake. Never recovered out 6+ grand. All he could think about was how cool they sounded.

And the reason I think it a great idea to fly a higher power EDF is the flight characteristics of the Jets. The just fly differently. Not bad but different.

Also, you may find the appeal and the nerves just never make it viable.

Add to that the requirement of always having a paved club field to fly it at, with a LONG runway (600+ feet is nice) isn't always an option.

Go to jet meets to get sucked into the sound. I think the high power EDF's sound just about as cool (but I get it!).

And at then end of the day remember the trainer turbines still make that cool sound too!

Good luck.

Mike
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 10:23 PM
"Take Off" eh!
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with all due respect pda4you.. I know your just trying to help.. but like Honda says..Its just wasting money that could be spent on a decent Turbine jet. I can say this because for the last 5 years I have been flying Both EDF and Turbines. The EDFs are just a quick high. There easy to build and not to big. Sure they can move out, but dont even come close to a turbine. The second you take off with an EDF your already loosing power and the clock it ticking down on your 3 minute flight. A turbine with a big enough tank can fly for over 8-10min at FULL throttle. EDFs are not cheap either.. Dont think you can buy just one pack and your off to the field. You need at least 3 packs. One in the plane. One on the charger and One on standby. Then theres alll the chargers and a generator etc etc etc. The best thing I ever did was to sell ALL my EDF stuff and concentrate solely on turbines.

Your not just buying the sound..Your buying the sound, the constant power from take off to landing, the Smell..Ohhh the smell and a REAL turbine jet.

I get a laugh out of the EDF guys using the new 12 bladed fans.. They say "Wow! It sounds like a real Turbine" LOL Yeah! a turbine thats 10 miles away

What kinda person that is a nervous pilot would fly over water?? Im not a nervous pilot..but I dont think I would ever fly over water. What would happen if you had a flame out? oh yeah..you already answered that one lol
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 09:50 AM
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What kinda person that is a nervous pilot would fly over water?? Im not a nervous pilot..but I dont think I would ever fly over water. What would happen if you had a flame out? oh yeah..you already answered that one lol
He is a crappy pilot and we fly by a lake.

I am not trying to say an EDF replicates, in every way a Turbine. I am saying it is a good intermediate step to see if that style of flying is for you.

Mike
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 02:05 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
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Well the whole EDF thing is interesting as far as setup and weight is concerned. Using the Global Jet 1/8 F-16 ARF "Pro" as an example (my understanding is that it is basically an improved JL), I compared weights. Build specifications call for 13-16lb thrust. The Jet Central Bee II, 15.5lb thrust, consumes about 4oz/minute (substantially less than the 100-class turbines by the way). So, assuming I wanted to go light, I would tank it to 32oz so that I get 6 minutes and a 2mn reserve. The Bee weighs 1.85lb or 29oz. So we have 59oz fuel and motor. Not sure if the ECU / tubing / solenoids are included in the quoted powerplant weight.

Now lets say I go EDF for the same plane. Setup would be Stumax 110-52 on 12S for 4.5Kw and about 13lb thrust. The EDF unit weighs 26oz and my 40C packs would weigh 56oz, plus another 4oz for the controller. Total is 86oz, or 5.5lb. So the EDF version would be almost 2lb more, which is significant in this class. In fact, I could "upgrade" the plane to a 100-class turbine and increased fuel requirement for the same weight penalty.

To respond to Dr. Honda - I understand that there are big differences in behavior of turbines and EDF - my thought was that I could replicate that by keeping some power (thrust) on the landing and advancing the throttle slowly when I control descent, to simulate turbine behavior (heck, I can even program a throttle end point that keeps the EDF running, and I can also delay the throttle response curve if I want to get really serious about this). My goal here would be to identify flaws in my landing methodology while I still have reserve power to get out of trouble if I am screwing up. Just trying to flatten the learning curve a bit is all.

Not trying to short-ciruit the jet trainer - I promise!!

Turbine guys - no matter which way you cut it, pda4you is right on cost - EDF - even the most pricey, is way cheaper than a turbine setup. Even with the pricey Stumax or Scheubeler fans, I come in thousands less. Compared to turbines, there is no such thing as a "high cost" EDF setup. Besides, I already have the batteries (30+ !), speed controllers, and charging equipment to accomodate the 12S setup I cite above, and that is not even the "trainer" setup I'm considering. Just sayin'...
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 03:17 PM
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The funny thing is that old guys that never landed safe once do fly rolling circles in the gym with a shock flyer foamy better then I do it... Experienced turbine flyers haveing owned 20 turbine jets during the past 20 years get shaky knees and bounce the landing gear of the jets when they fly before a crowd.

There simply is no proper way to come around training with the turbine it self. Even if you add a delay on the throttle of your EDF and lands it like a Boss every time you will have troubble flying the jet because of nerves. I usually have no problems flying or launching my planes but I still was a hair from launching my funjet + Kolibri in the dirt the first time. Why? I dont know any exploation more then nerves, even though I still felt pretty calm.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 07:31 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
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Well given nerves are the main enemy here, I'll be a lot more calm on the sticks if I have practice landing a flying brick. The Eflite F4 phantom with the stock setup suits that requirement to a tee: 7lbs, 2.8sq ft of wing and no lifting body. May even be more with the retracts. 44oz loading on a tiny reynolds number. It will come in hot and on power, will chew up a lot of runway, and has no brakes. Should be positively nerve-wracking to land and I'll have close to $1,000 in it as I watch it head down the runway. It's a perfect intermediate practice plane, if I can keep it in one piece. This will be the first plane I am buying expressly because it is no fun to fly.

Flying a turbine trainer and even a 1/6 F-16 should be a piece of cake after that thing...

Or I could bash the Hobbyking Viper 90 with a nano-turbine. Now that would be sadistic.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TTRotary View Post
............

Or I could bash the Hobbyking Viper 90 with a nano-turbine. Now that would be sadistic.
Two things.....

1) The HK 90mm Viper has some real flying issues. (I wouldn't touch it)

2) it's been done. (lol)


I know Henke likes his little turbines... but so do I. This is the CMP 90mm T-45. (same as the HK version) I have a Wren 44 in it. It's WAY over powered.

Unfortunately... in the USA... it's too small/light to get your waiver with.


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Old Jan 09, 2013, 08:25 PM
"Take Off" eh!
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Hold the boat there Honda lol

The 90 Viper is rock solid. Its the Hawk that has the tip stall problems. I know cause I had both

Not trying to start a war here.. just saying

But seriously.. The absolute best 90mm from HK is the L-59. That is one plane that really deserves a micro turbine. I regret selling that one.

Now here's whats up on the bench after the Byron F-16

SU-37 from the king. She's getting a p-60 in her

Sorry for getting off topic guys
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