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Old Jan 03, 2013, 07:27 AM
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the tail seems to look a little soft.. the hold is not as solid as it should be... maybe some adjustments on the tail gain will help to get the tail to stick....
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 08:47 AM
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gedaxes, i haven't seen any other menu's for the gyro, maybe it needs another update? and the servos return in something like 5 seconds? it makes sense if you think about it though because its simulating what a flybar does. when the heli is moving fast and you let go of the stick, it kinda brakes, and then slowly returns to normal. the fbl gyro does the same thing, when you let go the servos jump close to level quickly, and then finish the last little bit of movement slowly. for the tail, i wonder if i have it set mechanically way off, so the gyro is compensating a lot, and then when it needs more authority its used up all of its travel, that could be. i'll try setting up the tail in rate mode, that shows what the tail is actually doing right?
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 08:52 AM
CP heli ≠ 3D heli
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The old CopterX gyro had a separate menu for advanced settings, I'm pretty sure you should have it too.

If you set up correctly in rate mode, it should be easier for the gyro to do it's job, but the tail blades will have different amounts of pitch, so if the gyro does not take that into account, it will be mushy in one direction and bouncy in the other, which can be fixed with the piro stop variables.

About the swash returning back to level: That's what I thought, which means that there is no improvement over the old gyro. So the only way I'm ever buying one is if I ever build a quad and if I ever feel like playing with cheap quad gyros.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 08:55 AM
just gotta mess with it!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.michael.2468 View Post
hey i took the advice for the HH mode, i originally bumped the rates to 40%, but CX is backwards, 0% is highest HH mode, so to make it "more HH" you have to go further below 50%. i ended up at about 30% as the highest i wanted to go without getting any shakes. the gyro does a great job while hovering, but as soon as i took it out and buzzed it up and down the tail would like give while a was giving it more throttle and then it would "stick" at the new height, then when i'd drop it the tail would swing the other way and "stick" at the new hovering position, i'm sure this is just another programming issue, even the mcpx can handle this --somewhat-- any advice on this one? other than this issue i was really happy with it, even with the analog servos it centers nicely, very stable and easy to hover, yet very smooth on the controls.

by "buzz" i mean like throttle it up hard and then dropping it and catching it, i would think it should be able to figure out when the throttle is increasing and decreasing?
To see your actual tail gain, hook up the controller to your pc and go into the "monitor" tab. Then you can get a feel for how your TX ATV values relate to the actual gain in the CX.

Before you start adjusting PID values, go thru all of the preset models to see which one you like best.

The "Tail Compensate Collective to Tail" setting is useful, and easiest to check out with the tail in Rate mode. You'll find it at the bottom right of the John_NZ FBL software screen after clicking the "Advanced" button.

If you do use it, make sure the compensation is in the correct direction - when you move the collective stick up or down, the tail slider should move towards the tail boom, not away from it. You can use a negative value if need be.

On my CX 3x1000 on my 450, I did a lot of tests with the heli on a Lazy Susan, and my most significant change was a reduction of the tail decel values to reduce a stop bounce. You'll also find those values after clicking the "Advanced" button - but do try all the preset models first.

It would be interesting to know your cyclic gain settings with your analog servos. On 450's, people use gain around 20.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 01:08 PM
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hmm, i think i'm actually backwards, the tail holds much better when i go above the 50% mark, right now i'm at 70% on my dx6i and it holds like perfectly, even when i pump the throttle a bit... maybe spektrum is backwards? i need to do a little more playing with it but i think thats the case, and right now i'm in "soft 3D" pre-set

yep! just tested 2 more battery lengths through it and that's definitely it! tail holds really well, it swings like 2 degrees and then comes back very quickly while pushing the throttle. it feels really stable and i really like it a lot how it is! i think i'm just about done messing with it lol. i'll probably have to do a run through on how i did it all for you guys.

and to the question about the software, the 2000 runs the v1.2 from the 1000 series still, so i don't think they've made the new software yet, maybe this is a question for ehirobo?

and i'd still like to know exactly how i can make use of the pots...
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mr.michael.2468 View Post
hmm, i think i'm actually backwards, the tail holds much better when i go above the 50% mark, right now i'm at 70% on my dx6i and it holds like perfectly, even when i pump the throttle a bit... maybe spektrum is backwards? i need to do a little more playing with it but i think thats the case, and right now i'm in "soft 3D" pre-set

yep! just tested 2 more battery lengths through it and that's definitely it! tail holds really well, it swings like 2 degrees and then comes back very quickly while pushing the throttle. it feels really stable and i really like it a lot how it is! i think i'm just about done messing with it lol. i'll probably have to do a run through on how i did it all for you guys.

and to the question about the software, the 2000 runs the v1.2 from the 1000 series still, so i don't think they've made the new software yet, maybe this is a question for ehirobo?

and i'd still like to know exactly how i can make use of the pots...
On the 3x1000 red light indicator is Headhold, and the blue light is rate, I assume this is the same,as I have read the instructions,and there are very few differences...I wonder if this will program with the box?
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 01:45 PM
CP heli ≠ 3D heli
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I could swear that blue was heading hold on mine and red was rate.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 01:57 PM
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yep, the light is red now,
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 02:04 PM
just gotta mess with it!
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Originally Posted by mr.michael.2468 View Post
and to the question about the software, the 2000 runs the v1.2 from the 1000 series still, so i don't think they've made the new software yet, maybe this is a question for ehirobo?
There's no updated software, but you could use the FBL software from John_NZ instead, and that might enable you to use the "conditions" feature, assuming it exists in the 3x2000. It did in the 3x1000, but wasn't accessible from the CopterX V1.2 software.

In any case, you really should go into the "monitor" tab of the CopterX software, and check to see what actual gains you are getting in your tail with whatever values you are using in the TX.

To get to the monitor window, click on the "setup" button. That will open the setup window, and along the top of the window you will see 12 tabs (though in the default size window "Pirouette Optimization" will be hidden beyond the right hand end, and you need to scroll to it with the Arrow buttons. It's always been a bug of the CopterX software that you can't simply click on a tab, say the "monitor" tab to bring up the monitor window. Instead, you have to repeatedly click on the "Next" button at the bottom right or "Prev" button at the bottom left to get to the tab you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.michael.2468 View Post
and i'd still like to know exactly how i can make use of the pots...
With the controller hooked up to your pc thru the software, it should be possible to see what the pots do by adjusting them and seeing what changes. I suspect the pots change the overall gain in aileron, elevator and rudder - so you should see the values change in the main window. For example, using the 3D Soft preset, your cyclic gains will be set to 40, so moving the pots might alter those gains. Most people have the tail gain set to 100 in the controller, and use ATV values in the Gear switch in the TX to set gain - but perhaps the third pot on the controller will alter that 100 value.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 02:51 PM
CP heli ≠ 3D heli
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I have a suspicion that the three pots are there for the plank gyro mode, since you don't usually set gyro gains on planks through the radio.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 03:32 PM
just gotta mess with it!
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No pain, no gain..

In fact, Beenflying asked eHirobo about it a while back in this thread:

Originally Posted by beenflying

Thanks for the info, ehirobo. Can you tell us what the 3 pots (I, II & III) do? And also how the pots work with the settings in the PC software, if they do the same thing as one of the settings?

Originally Posted by ehirobo

That is for the gain for the 3 axis, and it works at the sametime with the gain setting inside the setup box / cable (pb001 and pb002). Usually just leave it at factory setting, setup the heli, test fly it. And can do fine adjustment without connecting the gyro to the setup box and cable.


So my reading of the way the pots work is that they act on top of the settings in the software, giving you an easy way to tweak any of the three main gains in the field, without having to hook up to a pc or program box. That probably means that you won't see any effect in the settings shown in the software when you move the pots. Say the cyclic gains were 40 in the software, with the pots set to zero, or 12 o'clock, or whatever the neutral position is. In the event of getting cyclic shakes, you could move the pots counterclockwise to reduce the gains - but the gains will still show as 40 in the software. Back at home and connected to the pc, you could reset the pots to neutral and reduce the gains in the software to, say, 35 to achieve exactly the same effect. The fact that ehirobo suggests you can use it for fine adjustment in the field suggests that it works as a multiplier, perhaps being able to boost or reduce gain by maybe 25%.

Think I'm going to have to get a 2000 just to satisfy my curiosity about it!
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 03:48 PM
CP heli ≠ 3D heli
Gedexas's Avatar
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Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
Think I'm going to have to get a 2000 just to satisfy my curiosity about it!
Exactly my thoughts. I am reasonably happy with the older model, bang for the buck was pretty good for the old unit.

If they only released some bugfixes for their PC software and other small stuff like this, I would not think twice about getting one.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 12:12 AM
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haha i would get one! it's definitely going on the bigger heli i build in the future, probably going to be a black angel... if it holds this well on a little 250 i can imagine it will preform flawlessly on a something twice as big, lol. someone with a bit of a fleet needs to get one of these and compare it to the 3gx, the beastx, and the xyz or whatever from tarot. i'd love to see a side by side with some of the big name stuff.

i'm going to shovel a landing spot out in the yard and do some circuits with it maybe tomorrow and see how it does in flight, but first i need to go through and locktite it, i've been putting that off longer than i should have...
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 12:22 AM
CP heli ≠ 3D heli
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I have the old CopterX gyro, the G31 and the Total-G. So those are the only ones that I can compare. I am yet to fly the Total-G, but the weather will not let me right now. From a little hover I got when setting the Total-G up, it gives me a good amount of confidence that it's the best one of the three, the price certainly reflects it.

Apart from the three pots and the quad/plank modes, I imagine that the new CopterX gyro is very similar to the old one. Maybe someone who has both, old and new CopterX units can verify this.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 09:01 AM
just gotta mess with it!
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Beenflying would be the perfect candidate, but he doesn't have one and is already up to his armpits in FBL controllers and helis!
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