HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 17, 2012, 04:45 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
Discussion
Coreless Motor Direction of Rotation?

Hi,

I'm having a play-around with some 6, 7 and 8.5mm coreless motors, hoping to find a motor and direct drive prop combination that yields about 30g+ of thrust. (Motors in transit, DD-2508 and DD-2510 props on hand.)

I've seen a number of posts by people sourcing coreless motor replacements for micro helis, which agonise over the direction of rotation that a motor is intended for.

Now, having examined the commutator brush arrangement within one of these tiny motors, I cannot honestly see how rotation direction might be important.

There again, I'm no expert on such matters, so I would greatly appreciate advice from any of those more knowledgeable on this matter.

T.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Last edited by Tressie; Dec 17, 2012 at 06:27 PM.
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:21 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
Also, does anyone know what kind of motor, gearbox and propeller the Hobbyzone Cub comes with?

I've just seen Ken Neal's Micro Stingray in action, and 'want what he got'.

T.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:29 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
7,327 Posts
Parkzone cub.

It uses a 6mm motor that is much hotter than all of the other 6mm's.

The brushes are pieces of wire and wire works better in tension than compression.

Reverse rotation motors flip the brush direction.
UNGN is offline Find More Posts by UNGN
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:57 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
Parkzone cub.

It uses a 6mm motor that is much hotter than all of the other 6mm's.

The brushes are pieces of wire and wire works better in tension than compression.

Reverse rotation motors flip the brush direction.
Hi Chris,

Thanks for that. I know my own 6-mm motor will be too small, as it puts out just 10g of static thrust with a 2508 direct drive prop. I believe that adding a gearbox gets you up to about 15g, but Neil was saying he has better than 1:1 thrust to weight for his Stingray, with an AUW of 26.6g. That must be some 6-mm motor that comes with the HobbyZone champ.

Hmm...sounds like I should be mindful of the wire polarity with these coreless motors. The one I openned had flattened-out black rings for commutator bushes, and it didn't look terribly important which way the rotor spun. There's no telling what type of bushes the new motors will have, and I don't plan to open any of them just yet to find out, so I think I'll just play it safe and get some CCW props if need be.

Neat shuttle you're working on, Chris.

T.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:10 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
7,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tressie View Post
Hi Chris,

Thanks for that. I know my own 6-mm motor will be too small, as it puts out just 10g of static thrust with a 2508 direct drive prop. I believe that adding a gearbox gets you up to about 15g, but Neil was saying he has better than 1:1 thrust to weight for his Stingray, with an AUW of 26.6g. That must be some 6-mm motor that comes with the HobbyZone champ.

Hmm...sounds like I should be mindful of the wire polarity with these coreless motors. The one I openned had flattened-out black rings for commutator bushes, and it didn't look terribly important which way the rotor spun. There's no telling what type of bushes the new motors will have, and I don't plan to open any of them just yet to find out, so I think I'll just play it safe and get some CCW props if need be.

Neat shuttle you're working on, Chris.

T.
The J-3 cub motor puts out close to 23g of thrust with a Cub prop/gearbox.
Probably more with a good battery.

The Cub motor will easily fly a 27g plane... up to about 35g would be no problem.

The Champ comes with a 8.4mm motor that weighs over 3g more than the 6mm... and if you are going 8.4mm, the mustang motor is a better choice than the Champ motor... unless you are using an old Green dot Vapor brick with a 1.0 Amp ESC.

The Champ motor Prop would put out about 35g of thrust, a Mustang set up would put out 45g of thrust, but batteries are a big factor. Cheap batteries put out measurably less thrust.
UNGN is offline Find More Posts by UNGN
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:35 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
The J-3 cub motor puts out close to 23g of thrust with a Cub prop/gearbox.
Probably more with a good battery.

The Cub motor will easily fly a 27g plane... up to about 35g would be no problem.

The Champ comes with a 8.4mm motor that weighs over 3g more than the 6mm... and if you are going 8.4mm, the mustang motor is a better choice than the Champ motor... unless you are using an old Green dot Vapor brick with a 1.0 Amp ESC.

The Champ motor Prop would put out about 35g of thrust, a Mustang set up would put out 45g of thrust, but batteries are a big factor. Cheap batteries put out measurably less thrust.
Thanks, Chris. Oh, I seem to be getting my Cubs and Champs mixed up, don't I? Yes, it was the Champ that was mentioned as the powertrain source for Ken Neil's Micro Stingray.

I imagine that around 35g of thrust would suit my burgeoning mini wing nicely, as with the much larger 8.xmm motor, my AUW will be only around 25g. I've already bridged the two apparently high-spec nfet outputs of my mini coaxial helicopter brick to accomodate such a motor. I suspect that the 45g provided by the Mustang set-up might be overkill for my flimsy little build, but I'll keep that one in mind for another time.

Yes, HobbyZone Champ parts are what I'm after, by the looks.

T.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:09 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
Just out of curiosity, if I wanted to go 1S brushless and be in the same sort of thrust range as the Hobbyzone Champ setup, what sort of motor/ gearbox(?)/ prop combination might I be looking for?

I ask this because, until a few moments ago, this looked like being a cheaper option than sourcing original Hobbyzone parts. Thankfully, I've since found an 'affordable' supplier for the Champ parts, though I'm still looking at around USD25.00 for 1 motor, 1 gearbox and 2 props. Thats really only a couple of dollars short of a brushless set-up that I thought might be suitable.

Thanks muchly if you can help on this one. All suggestions gratefully received.

T.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:11 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
Oh, and what are the bends everyone seems to be putting in their micro aircraft's control rods for? Is that for minor adjustments to the linkage length, or some kind of servo-saving measure?

T.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Dec 18, 2012, 03:12 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
This is the tiny brushless motor that I thought might be an appropriate substitution for my ~25g mini wing. More precisely, its in fact a link to said motor:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tor_3_1g_.html

I'm quite interested in all comments and opinions, though the thing I am most curious of, is whether it's going to make me feed it with something larger than my existing 1S 160mAh NanoTech batteries? If so, then it's probably not appropriate for the class of plane I wish to be toying with.

The claim is for about a 30g static thrust with a direct drive prop (1S). It does have positive points in terms of expected longevity, and the matching 4025 props are commonly had at virtually a dime a dozen. Not sure how you go for a prop adapter, though.

Thanks.

T.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Last edited by Tressie; Dec 18, 2012 at 04:14 AM.
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Dec 18, 2012, 04:47 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
Can't get over the video of Ken Neal's Micro Stingray in action.

Never seen such a tiny plane fly about in such a spritely manner!

Very cool, Ken.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:26 AM
RC Connectors dot com
glenn2626's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined Jan 2008
1,176 Posts
There's lots & lots of info about the AP03 motor here on RCG.

Just search in the indoor/micro section and you'll find everything you need.
glenn2626 is offline Find More Posts by glenn2626
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: New Xtreme Video TX cable
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:35 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn2626 View Post
There's lots & lots of info about the AP03 motor here on RCG.

Just search in the indoor/micro section and you'll find everything you need.
Thanks glenn2626.

Well thats one way to go, yet after an hours searching this morning I'm no more clued-up than as previously. Shame there isn't a wiki associated with this forum, where all the disparate facts and figures might be organised to share.

T.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:33 PM
Pilot, Co-pilot, Navagator
nemoskull's Avatar
United States, AZ, Yuma
Joined Sep 2009
2,781 Posts
tessie: i got around 30 grams thrust @ 1S on that motor.
nemoskull is offline Find More Posts by nemoskull
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2012, 02:19 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemoskull View Post
tessie: i got around 30 grams thrust @ 1S on that motor.
Hi Nemo,

Thanks for that. Yes, a static thrust of about 30g would be ideal for what I have in mind (I think).

My guess is that this would have been with roughly a DD-4025 prop, and possibly at a current of about 1.25-1.5A?

Okay, so can you remember how the AP03 4000kV's 1.5mm shaft was matched to the (possibly) 4mm hole of a >3-inch prop? Best I can find is a rather heavy looking aluminium spinner, designed for a prop with a 3mm centre.

The plan is to use a 160mA NanoTech, though I'm not sure whether exceeding a 1Amp draw with this cell is going to be particularly wise? Hobby King's AD-C5 4.6g 3700Kv Micro Motor appears to produce a similar thrust at about 1Amp, so I'm sort of torn between the two.

T.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Last edited by Tressie; Dec 19, 2012 at 03:05 AM.
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Dec 19, 2012, 03:45 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jan 2012
45 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tressie View Post
Okay, so can you remember how the AP03 4000kV's 1.5mm shaft was matched to the (possibly) 4mm hole of a >3-inch prop? Best I can find is a rather heavy looking aluminium spinner, designed for a prop with a 3mm centre.
Ah, it seems that GWS make a push-on plastic spinner that will hold a 4mm centred prop to a 1.5mm motor shaft. Sounds like a nice light solution, but where to purchase such a thing!??

T.
Tressie is offline Find More Posts by Tressie
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold KDE Direct Trex 550 Anti-Rotation bracket delta2001 Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 Nov 19, 2012 07:54 PM
Question ice rotation direction change via manual programming? biskit Castle Creations 10 Nov 07, 2012 08:01 AM
Change direction of rotation of 020 sensored astro motor Endoman Power Systems 8 Jul 30, 2003 02:59 PM
Tipsy Motor Rotation Direction ?? HELP!! old_dude Foamies (Kits) 1 Feb 28, 2002 08:48 PM
Direct drive rotating core sensorless brushless motor for 99.00$. AXI 2820/10 modest-master Electric Plane Talk 1 Jan 09, 2002 02:08 PM