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Old Dec 16, 2012, 01:25 AM
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hi andy,

sorry for your less than tasteful experience with HK's FBL100. i assume you had been flying RC before like most of us who are just returning to the hobby. i personally got back and bought two of the hisky FBL100 which is pretty much the same animal as that made by turnigy. i never had any issues with both and they took off and flew fine out of the box. it is worthy to note however that the modern FBL system behaves very differently compared to a conventional flybarred heli. the gyro goes crazy when you restrain it as most of the videos did. it almost always wants to flip to one side during initial rotor disk wind up so this process must be done with modest collective input. it would have been easier to diagnose your dilemma if you had posted a video in an attempt to hover it. better to see how it tilts to the side as you described...

the hobby is quite rewarding and as equally challenging/can be frustrating to say the least. i hope you get a fair closure after the smoke clears...
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by hawk01 View Post
hi andy,

sorry for your less than tasteful experience with HK's FBL100. i assume you had been flying RC before like most of us who are just returning to the hobby. i personally got back and bought two of the hisky FBL100 which is pretty much the same animal as that made by turnigy. i never had any issues with both and they took off and flew fine out of the box. it is worthy to note however that the modern FBL system behaves very differently compared to a conventional flybarred heli. the gyro goes crazy when you restrain it as most of the videos did. it almost always wants to flip to one side during initial rotor disk wind up so this process must be done with modest collective input. it would have been easier to diagnose your dilemma if you had posted a video in an attempt to hover it. better to see how it tilts to the side as you described...

the hobby is quite rewarding and as equally challenging/can be frustrating to say the least. i hope you get a fair closure after the smoke clears...
As said earlier binding the TX and trying a hand launch just causes the thing to flip, no control input works for this heli. I can see videos on youtube of It working/taking off and mine (and all the others in the videos) are not behaving in the way that they are in the videos, showing a video of it trying to take off would last less than 3 seconds, you throttle up (slowly) the blades hit the deck, it spins. throttle up fully, blades hit the deck it spins. Try to put any control in while its (suppose to be lifting off), nothing happens. theres no control with this helicopter, I know its hard to beleive because yours works. Mine does not, Hobby king have senta dodgy batch out and they are not willing to fix it for any of us. People posting about heli schools, this is not my first time flying a cp helicopter, Iv been in RC clubs for 20 years, Iv hovered peoples helis before, full; size gas ones. If I can do circuits with those im sure id manage to get the fbl100 2 inches off the ground. Also I dont ever remember a helis tail rotor being on full throttle constantly soon as you give any throttle. Theres a flite test video of josh scott giving the mcpx full throttle and it lifting off the deck some 20 foot and all be it crashing, If id have gotten that far then id say you are correct.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 05:20 AM
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watch what this guy does here, holds it in his hands flat, it spools up NO movement what so ever on the swash plate. they are broke!
Turnigy FBL100 3D Micro Helicopter 今日の散歩! (2 min 57 sec)
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 05:10 PM
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Andyclayton, Escalate to a Paypal Claim and demand a full refund (inc.shipping). If they want it back they should also pay return shipping. If HK is ignoring the claim Paypal will probably rule in your favor. Don't let Hobby Scrooge steal your money and ruin your holiday. Merry Christmas
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 11:33 PM
The END.....ha!
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Australia, SA, Edinburgh
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Originally Posted by Andyclayton View Post
watch what this guy does here, holds it in his hands flat, it spools up NO movement what so ever on the swash plate. they are broke! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SockRRMq4eo
In that vid the pilot is doing exactly what has to be done with a flybarless system. He is not stopping the system from locking. You can't hold down any "gyro" stab flying device and expect it to do the right thing. Even expensive multirotor controllers get confused if you lock them down and don't give them the freedom to lock by themselves. Simulators don't reflect this.

Mark
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Andyclayton View Post
Thanks, I see where you are coming from, but If they are deleting negative posts on their site, It makes it very hard to find anything out, so many people giving them a good review as well, thats why I want to let people aware

its also important to note peoples youtube vids have only been popping up this month, theres plenty of vids of them working out there.

as i mentioned very hard to find any negative info about this, I did a lot of research before buying this heli I didnt just buy it. so if you can find a bad review reporting this same problem id gladly say you were right. Im not sure you can class youtube vids meant for hobby kings support centre only as a place you would look.

i do blame myself however, for believing theres decent people about, This is a hobby, its supposed to be something i thought everyone enjoyed. From my experience sellers get involved in this hobby because they have passion of the hobby themselves and want to share the joy with others. seems I am wrong

This company Is showing a history of sending out multiple defective models in my post. In my eyes this is fraud?
Where Hobby King is concerned, I have every transaction I've ever done with them printed to paper, and stored on my computer, as I've heard they like to do the sort of things I've been reading here and other complaint threads about them.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 02:37 PM
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i had to pay for return postage even with paypal dispute, complete criminals i just hope someone is able to benefit from reading
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pmerritt View Post
I agree that they are handling your situation poorly but I can't say that i'd wish them to be totally gone either. They have a lot of substandard items in their portfolio but you, as the consumer, need to do more research than what's on the vendors site. .
Blaming the buyer for HK's non working products and poor support?
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wayfaringdreamer View Post
Blaming the buyer for HK's non working products and poor support?
I'm yet to be convinced that there is actually anything wrong with the product (of course it could be duff). Flying helis has a lot of hidden traps that you need to learn and one is what has already been said several times. They simply don't work as expected restrained.

Mark
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by KCV6 View Post
I'm yet to be convinced that there is actually anything wrong with the product (of course it could be duff). Flying helis has a lot of hidden traps that you need to learn and one is what has already been said several times. They simply don't work as expected restrained.

Mark
Thanks for the clarification. I thought you meant that it was his fault for not researching the product more and finding that many others had the same problem.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by KCV6 View Post
I'm yet to be convinced that there is actually anything wrong with the product (of course it could be duff). Flying helis has a lot of hidden traps that you need to learn and one is what has already been said several times. They simply don't work as expected restrained.

Mark
have you not read my other posts??????

holding the product down is the only way to show what its doing

weather held down or not it does this, it makes me so angry that you would rather tell me im doing this wrong than see that hobby king is clearly ripping people off, I now have another heli i got from elsewhere and i can fly it perfectly.
this thing is broke so you all need to stop telling me that the product is fine, i tell you what give me 30 quid on paypal and ill send it to you if you feel so confident its fine and then you will have a very cheap helicopter, put your money where your mouth is and i will start beleiving you, otherwise your contirbutions are pointless to everyone hoping to get a working product from hobby king
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Andyclayton View Post
have you not read my other posts??????

holding the product down is the only way to show what its doing

weather held down or not it does this, it makes me so angry that you would rather tell me im doing this wrong than see that hobby king is clearly ripping people off, I now have another heli i got from elsewhere and i can fly it perfectly.
this thing is broke so you all need to stop telling me that the product is fine, i tell you what give me 30 quid on paypal and ill send it to you if you feel so confident its fine and then you will have a very cheap helicopter, put your money where your mouth is and i will start beleiving you, otherwise your contirbutions are pointless to everyone hoping to get a working product from hobby king
Andyclayton, No matter how many times you post or how much evidence you present to support your case there are people that will defend HK no matter what you say. HK ran a ad on their website to hire people to do just that. They will always post some lame reason why NO problem is EVER HK's fault.
You went on the HK site and found what appeared to be a good Heli. It probably had a 4 or 5 crown rating because nearly Everything on their site does. They delete most of the negative reviews and comments and allow some people to post several Five crown reviews of the same prduct. They also hire people to promote them and their products on these forums. If Paypal isn't helping you get your money back try your CC company otherwise you'll be arguing your case here and with HK for the next Six months or longer. Just look at it as a learning experience to avoid getting ripped off in the future.
Hope you have a happier new year.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 04:51 PM
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I don't think anyone here is part of the paid program - we know there are many bad parts of HK also. We are just here to balance the constant "THIS IS A CONSPIRACY HK IS OUT TO STEAL OUR MONEYZ" from valanti. Just look at his post history. I think he is hired by Tower/Horizon to spew anti HK in the forums

Anyways, I have a Solo Pro 100 3D, another FBL micro heli. The cyclic in andy's video seems normal for a restrained FBL heli. The heli is trying to correct itself but you aren't letting it by holding it down. You can see in the video the cyclic slowly pitches back-right because it is trying to correct itself but you are constantly holding it down.

The tail also looks to be working correctly but once again, you are holding it down. When you let it spin CCW the tail rotor does spin up, but then you hold it down harder to stop it from spinning and the tail rotor stops.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 05:36 PM
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And lets take a closer look into FBL helicopters.

First, let us see the comments here. So before you received the helicopter, you had the mistaken notion that all of the helicopters were broken. (There are only about 10 videos on youtube about this). Naturally, when you received the helicopter (with already a bad taste of HK in your mouth), you are quick to jump to conclusions about the "faulty" FBL100.

But lets get into the science of flybarless helicopters. Because they don't have a flybar, these helicopters need gyroscopes and a flight computer to correct unwanted changes. Now it is important to note that gyroscopes do not measure the angle of the helicopter. They measure the rate of change of the angle. The helicopter doesn't know whether it is level or not, but it knows how much the angle has changed.

Now, looking at your video, up until 1:35 the cyclic looks fine. It is pitching up to increase the angle of the blades, and it is slightly correcting any changes in angle, since the box you are holding it on isn't perfectly stable. But at 1:35, you are continuing to throttle up, and the computer detects a change in the angle - a change towards the front-left. To correct this, the computer sends the signal to the servos to correct back-right. Now the computer waits for the gyros correct themselves to restore the servos and...... that never happens. By holding down the helicopter you are interfering with the gyros ability to give correct information to the computer. The helicopter never reads the correction, so the computer increases the correction on the servos even more. Same thing with the tail.

You even linked this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SockRRMq4eo

That is working properly because he is not restraining the helicopter. In your video and in everyone elses, something is holding the helicopter down.

If you would just slap on some training gear and try to get it in the air, you will realize the helicoper is working properly.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Razor_Racer View Post
I don't think anyone here is part of the paid program - we know there are many bad parts of HK also. We are just here to balance the constant "THIS IS A CONSPIRACY HK IS OUT TO STEAL OUR MONEYZ" from valanti. Just look at his post history. I think he is hired by Tower/Horizon to spew anti HK in the forums

Anyways, I have a Solo Pro 100 3D, another FBL micro heli. The cyclic in andy's video seems normal for a restrained FBL heli. The heli is trying to correct itself but you aren't letting it by holding it down. You can see in the video the cyclic slowly pitches back-right because it is trying to correct itself but you are constantly holding it down.

The tail also looks to be working correctly but once again, you are holding it down. When you let it spin CCW the tail rotor does spin up, but then you hold it down harder to stop it from spinning and the tail rotor stops.
I'm afraid you have me very confused and perhaps you can enlighten me. It seems that if the helicopter is restrained, as in held down, then it does not move when poer is applied. If the gyro does not sense any mevement then what exactly is it correcting for?
The tail rotor should also not try to correct if there is no movement so unless I am missing something I think Andyclayton has very good case that this heli is not fuctioning correctly.
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