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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:28 AM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
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Product Ideas

I started this thread to discuss product ideas. After taking over XPS completely, I had a chance to conduct inventory. We have a LOT of things that we have parts for, but will never be produced (like tens of thousands of plastic cases and labels for 8, 10, and 12 channel end pin receivers). We also have thousands of satellite receiver cases and labels. This got to me thinking more about remote receiver options for the XtremeLink system. One of the big problems with glider customers is size. If you separate the RF portion from the servo outputs you can reduce the size of both pieces. Having a remote portion would also open up many possible servo output options.

Pictured is a real DivBee based satellite receiver. It uses a 3 wire servo plug that connects to a servo output board.

Any thoughts on this or any other ideas for future products? Please keep in mind that multiple products can be designed at the exact same time without taking time away from other projects.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:35 PM
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Jim, I am glad you are dreaming big about what to do with your own company. There are many things you could do. other than size is there any benefit to having a satellite system? I currently fly a 38% with two nanos. The only thing I would recommend is that you have a way to access the power bus more easily. I ended up soldering wire on the back of the board so I could plug in a deans plug battery to the Nanos and feel the power was proper. "Recommended on this forum" It would be nice to have an easier way to add thick power wires to the Nano's. Also I read that you are making more Nanos but keeping them the same as before. I thought you were going to add a Telemetry port?
As for new products. I am still waiting for things that you have talked about, and said were coming, but have not seen the light of day yet. Top of my list is your TX. then XPS telemetry stuff. I know you provided documentation for people to make their own, but I would like to buy an XPS altimiter and speed sensor like was talked about before you ever sold your first item.
And once I have telemetry I would like that handheld unit you were working on to read telemetry data.
So if I could get an XPS TX, Nanos with telemetry and larger battery plugs, XPS telemetry and a handheld XPS telemetry readout. I would be happy for a while.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:35 PM
iva
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I believe that most users would benefit from Nanos the way they are currently but with longer antennas. Whith their short antennas they are not suitable for any carbon fuselage instalation. They can be very tricky to install in smaller models (sounds counterintuitive) because you may not be able to obey the requirement for the minimum distance from wires and solid objects.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:27 PM
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Tennessee
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I fly sailplanes and the best receiver was the sailplane receiver. The Nano is harder to mount and the extra weight of the case was no problem since I had to add more nose weight for the Nano. Could the Nano be housed in one of the 8 pin end plug cases? Maybe side ways with the antenna runing fore and aft parallel to the servo wires. Wouldn't solve the antenna problem for carbon fiber fuselages but....
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:27 PM
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Please keep the antenna short like they are. Instead offer a long antenna variant like your original sailplane Rx for the carbon sailplane applications

One of my favorite things about the XPS Rxs is that they do not have long antenna with which to contend.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uff-Da RC View Post
Jim, I am glad you are dreaming big about what to do with your own company. There are many things you could do. other than size is there any benefit to having a satellite system? I currently fly a 38% with two nanos. The only thing I would recommend is that you have a way to access the power bus more easily. I ended up soldering wire on the back of the board so I could plug in a deans plug battery to the Nanos and feel the power was proper. "Recommended on this forum" It would be nice to have an easier way to add thick power wires to the Nano's. Also I read that you are making more Nanos but keeping them the same as before. I thought you were going to add a Telemetry port?
As for new products. I am still waiting for things that you have talked about, and said were coming, but have not seen the light of day yet. Top of my list is your TX. then XPS telemetry stuff. I know you provided documentation for people to make their own, but I would like to buy an XPS altimiter and speed sensor like was talked about before you ever sold your first item.
And once I have telemetry I would like that handheld unit you were working on to read telemetry data.
So if I could get an XPS TX, Nanos with telemetry and larger battery plugs, XPS telemetry and a handheld XPS telemetry readout. I would be happy for a while.
the big gasser use case is actually a great example... if you check out the channel expander thread, more info there. So the setup becomes, satellite/Nano up in the turtledeck or somewhere to get the best possible reception, then a single servo wire connecting the Nano with the channel expander that is mounted in the middle of the plane. The channel expander is also a power expander, etc etc... so it will be like a SmartFly unit with all the servos plugged in there, with the signal receiving away from it all in the best possible location for signal receiving. It will be awesome.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
I started this thread to discuss product ideas. After taking over XPS completely, I had a chance to conduct inventory. We have a LOT of things that we have parts for, but will never be produced (like tens of thousands of plastic cases and labels for 8, 10, and 12 channel end pin receivers). We also have thousands of satellite receiver cases and labels. This got to me thinking more about remote receiver options for the XtremeLink system. One of the big problems with glider customers is size. If you separate the RF portion from the servo outputs you can reduce the size of both pieces. Having a remote portion would also open up many possible servo output options.

Pictured is a real DivBee based satellite receiver. It uses a 3 wire servo plug that connects to a servo output board.

Any thoughts on this or any other ideas for future products? Please keep in mind that multiple products can be designed at the exact same time without taking time away from other projects.
I doubt anyone would have an issue with a long antenna Nano... though the long antenna will be DivBee, and therefore a smidge larger, right?...


I like the idea of splitting the receiver and servo output sections in general. you could do it so that there's three male pins on the RF board, and three female connectors on the servo output side, and could simply plug them together and put them in a plastic case and sell them as a unit... but then tell people that they can break it out of the plastic case, and make that connection as long or as short as they want it to be... just being able to flex the board at that point will probably mean it can be squished into tight places made of compound curves more easily... the RF section can be put outside the plane, or if there's a long antenna version of the RF section, put wherever it's most sexy to get the antenna outside the fuse.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 04:04 PM
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actually, I could also imagine that it could be just a cool way of going about things to XPS receivers in general... pick your RF receiver/satellite, then pick your servo output module.

...if Nano is one of the satellite options as it already is, then that takes care of one of the satellite options, as well as having the product for the micro flyers. Means then we just need a DivBee satellite and a carbon fuselage satellite... and plug them into the mini channel expander for servo output, or the bigger one for the larger planes. Tell people to mount the satellite remotely in their best possible receiving location, and the servo output junctions wherever is most handy. sounds truly nice to me.

it actually becomes one of those bullet points on the marketing spiel that no other vendor would have... "remotely place the receiver section separately to servo output for best possible reception? - *check*"

The remote/servo output added 1millis to the latency if memory serves... but if people want to be that speed freakish they can use Nano's straight up as needed.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 04:10 PM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
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The Nano is not going to change. The antenna system is PART of the Nano's construction. It is not physically possible to change the length of the antenna wires - or the Nano won't work at all. The length is pretty critical it's operation.

Nano's will not get a telemetry port. It's just too small and I can't change it unless I got through FCC to re-certify a larger version. Since the DivBee is the same size as the Nano would need to be to support telemetry, it makes sense to use it.

Having a remote RF unit would make it easier to access for programming and binding. You could have the servo pin side buried anywhere in your plane and have easy access to the RF unit, located away from all of the wiring. I would put the RF unit inside/top of the vertical stab. That would be the absolute cleanest location.

The DivBee has dual antennas which would work perfectly for carbon applications (you could put them outside). I cured the latency issue by transferring the RF buffer data directly over the serial line as it is stored in memory. The servo module side outputs the PWM pulses as the data comes in, so the latency would be one character time (about 32us which is .032ms).
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 04:43 PM
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ah yes, telemetry... that chestnut (I look forward to the new Tx to show me that it's a cool thing)...

telemetry makes it a triad of bits... choose RF satellite, choose servo output, add telemetry box... voila! my guess would be that even separated the price would still be lower than the competition while giving people more choice and a nicer separated and setup system.

makes a nice lineup...
micro: plain 'ol Nano
satellite RF: Nano (smallest, no telemetry), DivBee, DivBee with long antennas
servo output: small (6 pins), medium (10 pins), large (16+ pins, power expanding and auto-matching), all with soldering taps to add better power plugs as needed.

...can add telemetry box to any set that's DivBee based RF...
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 05:44 PM
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Tucson, Arizona
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Hi Jim,

At one time XPS sold a Satellite receiver, or what I have always called a "remote antenna", and it was a good insurance for uninterupted signal to the main receiver (also for a peace of mind !).
Can this be reintroduced as a remote antenna and a simple plug in device? I like the idea of one multi channel receiver with one or more remote antennae.
I know that you have stated to me that extra antennae are not needed, but seeing all of the other big name radio systems incorperate them with their receivers, I can't help but believe that having an extra antenna would be good insurance of a solid signal reception.
Our airplanes can run into thousands of dollars and can be very harmful to people and property so having a solid signal reception is not an option, especially when a simple add on could help prevent a dissaster !!!!!!
Using only one receiver with an extra remote antenna is a lot easier than trying to bind multiple small receivers and splitting up the airplane servos and channel mapping everything just to get a solid system. Remember the "KISS" idea?
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 05:55 PM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
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In the real world, as well as bench testing, it was proven time and time again that our satellite receiver was only good for one thing... generating income. The link is so robust that extra antennas (or receivers) doesn't get you anything. If the main receiver electronics fail, it won't matter if you have 50 remotes.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:29 PM
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only Spek/Jr had satellites and said they were needed, afaik. but I love the idea of having the RF part of the equation remote as part of the system design though. allows for the best setup as well as satisfying the Spek users desire for something needing to be remote.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:34 PM
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and there's nothing wrong with income generation... XPS should make the satellites daisy-chain, all the extra sats just have an led turn on but actually don't do anything, add as many sats needed to keep inner voices happy
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 08:27 PM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
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Lol!
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