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Old Dec 13, 2012, 10:07 AM
'FPV'er...not a "LOS'er
Vantasstic's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
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Originally Posted by vic20owner View Post
If you get simonK flashed ESC's just make sure they work with the motors you select... I've heard some motors (like NTM1200) dont work as well with the flashed esc's (due to odd pole count?). But most work fine.
Good point Tom. I tried the NTM motors on SimonK flashed ESCs...and while they worked they were noisey as all get out. I understand the latest SimonK firmware works with the NTM motors, but haven't tested/verified myself. I do plan on testing that out with the FlipFPV. I've got some NTM 750 motors and unflashed ESCs. I try it unflashed, then flash them and test again. I know the RCTimer motors I've used work fine with the SimonK flashed ESCs...don't know about the HP motors...haven't tried them.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 10:16 AM
Build,Fly,Crash,Repeat
Michigan
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My SunnySky motors which are the same as the RCT HP series work great with f-20a's flashed with SimonK. The only complaint is that after the flash they spooled up so quick that they flexed my DJI arms and caused it to vibrate after that, Hence another reason to get the Flip, Those arms shouldn't flex.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 10:40 AM
'FPV'er...not a "LOS'er
Vantasstic's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget-Geek View Post
My SunnySky motors which are the same as the RCT HP series work great with f-20a's flashed with SimonK. The only complaint is that after the flash they spooled up so quick that they flexed my DJI arms and caused it to vibrate after that, Hence another reason to get the Flip, Those arms shouldn't flex.
That's part of the reason I didn't recommend the DJI style frame...vibrating and more breakage prone arms. The FPV frame I'm playing with now uses the DJI arms. When I saw the Flip FPV I immediately wanted it for the durability factor alone. I'm sure I'll be selling off the other frame once I get the Flip FPV going.

Oh, I understand the quicker spooling up motors with the SimonK firmware. When using my Naza I had to turn the arming rotation speed down so it didn't try to lift off once armed.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:09 AM
'FPV'er...not a "LOS'er
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget-Geek View Post
My SunnySky motors which are the same as the RCT HP series work great with f-20a's flashed with SimonK. ...
So you're happy with the SunnySky motors then? I thought about giving the RCT ones a try...but already have NTM 750 motors on hand...but I can't say I'm impressed with the NTMs when I've tried them so far.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget-Geek View Post
My SunnySky motors which are the same as the RCT HP series work great with f-20a's flashed with SimonK. The only complaint is that after the flash they spooled up so quick that they flexed my DJI arms and caused it to vibrate after that, Hence another reason to get the Flip, Those arms shouldn't flex.
No, the RCTimer HP-series are Sunnysky Clones!
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:37 PM
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Joined Jan 2012
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i know its been mentioned here about not buying used but if for a rare chance you can get a frame ,esc's ,motors,props for under $150 shipped i would say grab it, aslong as the frame is tight! , its something to start with and if by chance the added parts atleast half work you have saved some coin for the price of a frame alone ..research the motors first see if replacements are available easy and i cant see where you could go wrong
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 02:21 PM
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So far this thread has been more about getting started with a multirotor vs. a thread on the HT Flip FPV frame.

I have one on order, will start a build/fly thread when it arrives.

Not saying this thread is bad, just might want to change the title
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 02:40 PM
'FPV'er...not a "LOS'er
Vantasstic's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
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Originally Posted by cquian View Post
So far this thread has been more about getting started with a multirotor vs. a thread on the HT Flip FPV frame.

I have one on order, will start a build/fly thread when it arrives.

Not saying this thread is bad, just might want to change the title
We can blame Cralis for that. He started the Flip FPV frame thread, then started asking about other stuff. Bad Cralis...bad... Can't keep on topic...on his own thread!!!!

Personally I hate having a bunch of different threads on the same thing. I'll normally find and stick to one vs bouncing from one thread to another. I'm sure as soon as we get some Flip FPV frames in the hands of us consumers we can get some good Flip FPV info flowing here.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:24 PM
Build,Fly,Crash,Repeat
Michigan
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Originally Posted by Vantasstic View Post
So you're happy with the SunnySky motors then? I thought about giving the RCT ones a try...but already have NTM 750 motors on hand...but I can't say I'm impressed with the NTMs when I've tried them so far.
I am very pleased with them, I have close to 50 of them so far and only 2 or 3 have a stray winding but still better than most at twice the price. 1 of them had a solder blob on the windings from where they connected the wires to the motor leads. The ones that I bought from EP Buddy seem to have been assembled elsewhere as they are the only ones that have flat spots on the windings from where they pressed the stator to the base.

This thread is still about the flip I believe. Since nobody has one yet, We are just posting recommendations and links since Cralis is new to the whole quad scene. When the heavy hitters are all sudgesting the same advice, It's hard to go wrong. We have all been through the trial and error part for the most part. One thing I think is funny about the NTM series is that in the description and in the video, They say "NTM motors are balanced by removing material not adding it like other motors", BULL SHIZZLE!, Then what's that blue blob of epoxy doing on the motor can?, Balancing material. I have some 750kv's on my talon but it just has a KK board on it and unflashed Turnigy Plush's, Nothing fancy.

As far as buying used for $150, You can get a frame, motors and ESC's for under $190 new so for $40 more is money well spent. A lot of them are already matched combos. DJI's F450 ARF $190, RC Timer F450 clone $13-25 for the frame $65 for motors and $60 for ESC's = $138, Cheapie flight controller $29 = $167 all new and a good start. We are just trying to steer him to buying the correct gear for what he wants to achieve.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:39 PM
'FPV'er...not a "LOS'er
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Thanks for the info GG. I've been waffl'n on the HP motors. If I ordered them I'd also order other stuff and end up with a $150 bill or use what I already have on hand and is already paid for. Decisions, decision. Of course, when I get my "Flip'n" frame (sorry, bad pun), whatever I have is what's going on. Hmmm...wonder if it'll be on my doorstep after work...nah...probably still to early. Drat!!!
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 08:16 PM
Build,Fly,Crash,Repeat
Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbkappirossi View Post
No, the RCTimer HP-series are Sunnysky Clones!
Well if they are half as good then they will be more than twice as good than the other "Cheapies" out there. I source my SunnySky motors from HiModel, Shipping is pricey though, Get some GemFan carbon/nylon props and other bit while your at it. It's not long before the cart reaches $150 is it?.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 08:21 PM
'FPV'er...not a "LOS'er
Vantasstic's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
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Originally Posted by Gadget-Geek View Post
Well if they are half as good then they will be more than twice as good than the other "Cheapies" out there. I source my SunnySky motors from HiModel, Shipping is pricey though, Get some GemFan carbon/nylon props and other bit while your at it. It's not long before the cart reaches $150 is it?.
Oh yeah. I luv the Gemfan carbon mix props too. And yes, the $$$ add up quickly. I've almost talked myself out of another motor order though...I really should try what I already have on hand first...and then wish later I had already ordered the other stuff!
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 10:42 PM
I love FPV!
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Eastern side of Australia
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OK, after taking a huge beating from Van, about sliding away from the FLIP frame, I am moving back towards this. And therefore, steering the thread back to the original topic. I hope this pleases everyone.

This seems to be a '450' frame. What does 450 mean? Is that a dimension? I can't seem to find the actual dimensions of the frame. Is there a size chart?

I have updated the original post with the current shopping list. At this point, I am looking for Speed Controller/Motor/Prop combination. I'd like less vibration, less noise (Possible?) and longer flying times. I won't have a go-pro connected, but will probably add a 900Mhz 500mw video Tx and a board camera ... MAYBE mounted onto one of those 180/180 degree winch servos. Based on that - can you pick the best esc/motor/prop combo?

Van posted 2:
2830-11 1000KV Outrunner Brushless Motor Free Mounts
http://rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goo...1&productname=
and
2212-13 1000KV Outrunner Brushless Motor Free Mounts
http://rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goo...8&productname=

Which is the right choice?

They are both 30A motors... so I guess I need the 30A ESC (*4 on a battery - ouch!)
http://rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goo...9&productname=

Does this seem OK?
Also, I'd like a 'power distribution board' to keep things neater - can anyone recommend one?
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:49 PM
'FPV'er...not a "LOS'er
Vantasstic's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cralis View Post
OK, after taking a huge beating from Van, about sliding away from the FLIP frame, I am moving back towards this. And therefore, steering the thread back to the original topic. I hope this pleases everyone.

This seems to be a '450' frame. What does 450 mean? Is that a dimension? I can't seem to find the actual dimensions of the frame. Is there a size chart?

I have updated the original post with the current shopping list. At this point, I am looking for Speed Controller/Motor/Prop combination. I'd like less vibration, less noise (Possible?) and longer flying times. I won't have a go-pro connected, but will probably add a 900Mhz 500mw video Tx and a board camera ... MAYBE mounted onto one of those 180/180 degree winch servos. Based on that - can you pick the best esc/motor/prop combo?

Van posted 2:
2830-11 1000KV Outrunner Brushless Motor Free Mounts
http://rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goo...1&productname=
and
2212-13 1000KV Outrunner Brushless Motor Free Mounts
http://rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goo...8&productname=

Which is the right choice?

They are both 30A motors... so I guess I need the 30A ESC (*4 on a battery - ouch!)
http://rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goo...9&productname=

Does this seem OK?
Also, I'd like a 'power distribution board' to keep things neater - can anyone recommend one?
See, you only need to ask.

The total amp draw you'll likely see is ~<20A..that's 20A for all four motors, so really only about 5A per motor. 12A ESCs will do it for you, 18A-20A will be more than enough. 30 wouldn't hurt, but more than required. My highest amp draw was with some 1300kv motorson 3S with 8" props with a full throttle draw of 62A...or just over 15A per motor. That's a bit extreme and I pulled them off for lower kv motors. Most amp draws will be in the 15-16A TOTAL range

.For smooth running, you might want to try those HP 2212 1000kv motors (on 3S). Reports on the SunnySky (and this is a clone of them evidently) is very favorable. I saw some posts of people using the RCTimer HP2212 motors and they liked them. They're about $6 more per motor, but may be worth it. As for the other two I listed...I've used both styles with no problems. The 2830's are just a little longer.

Now what battery are you going to use? If 3S, got with a 1000-1200kv motor. If 4S drop down to 750-950kv. 4S will be more efficient...same power or less amps=longer run time BUT you need a lower kv motor or you'll just end up using more amps than really required. Figure a battery in the 3000+mAh range and flight times in the 6-8 minute range. (Sorry, you are running more than one motor so your flight times are going to be shorter than what you may be used to with fixed wing...nature of the beast).

Most ESCs have linear BECs. 4S on a linear BEC spells bad news. If you plan on going 4S then I'd recommend disconnecting all the red servo wires on your ESCs and run a switch mode external BEC. If using 3S then you need to only leave one BEC connected, though a lot of folks leave them all connected with no issues. HOWEVER...if you're using a Naza FC, the Naza VU doubles as a switch mode BEC to power the Naza and Rx...so you need to disable ALL your ESC BECs with the Naza...and also don't need to worry about 3S vs 4S. Oh, for quietness and flight time, the SimonK's are reported to be quieter and more efficient than stock firmware.

Here's the style power distro boards I've used...and just ordered three more of 'em: http://rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goo...7&productname= They should fit the mount spacing on the Flip FPV frame too...and more 'one stop shopping' for you. Just double tape your Naza (I'm assuming you're going the Naza route) on top of it...so conductors on the bottom side, FC on the top side. Works great!!!

Multicopter sizing is the diagonal distance between the motor shafts. A 'square' 450 frame is ~325mm side to side and front to back, and ~450mm diagonally. The Flip FPV is 11" across and 16 front-to-back, for ~19" diagonal, or about 482mm (if i input this right on my calculator)...so the motor spacing is narrower and longer than a 'square' 450 frame. Thie narrower is probably why 8" props are more towards the recommended size. 10" props would only give you 1/2" blade tip clearance side-to-side. For my Flip FPV I'm planning on 750kv motors, 4S, and 8" props.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:49 PM
I love FPV!
Cralis's Avatar
Eastern side of Australia
Joined Jan 2007
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Actually - spanner in the works. The only postage option for me, for that frame, is $41 to Australia. Will have to find a better postage option, or change frames.
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