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Old Dec 13, 2012, 06:19 PM
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Leroy Gardner's Avatar
Coeur d' alene, Id.
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Originally Posted by rcav8r2 View Post
This is one of those... Gee why didn't I think of that ideas. I'll have to try it next time I plan on using hinge points.
GREAT tip
That's what were here for, either teaching or learning. I taught myself that after I used the guide and wasn't happy with results. I did my TF 1/5 mustang that way, all hinge joints and everything fit perfectly.

Hang around and watch this major Tiger bash, you may enjoy it. Leroy
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 06:39 PM
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Been plugging away in the shop today, getting the wings joined to the inside retaining rib and tri stocking the fuse. joints, just waiting for glue to cure. I'll have more pict's. later so you can better see how the wings attach.

These pict's. were to see how things were shaping up prior to glueing the fuse together. It's looking good Leroy

Thursday night football, won't get much more done tonight.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 05:28 PM
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Got the sleeves secured in wings and fuse, double checked alignment, tail to wing tips and dihedral which is 1% or 1/2" per wing, it all went well and wings are solid.

Cockpit / canopy looks good on plane, I like the profile better than stock looks, it's coming together very nicely and I'm happy with results of my endevor. At some point some of you may do some of these things to a Tiger it takes bashing very well and it's easy to improve the quality of this plane.

Trailing surfaceses of wings are next, it's just a matter of flaps or no flaps or flaperons which I have no experience with. I do know you need a reciever with duel ailerons if you choose the flaperon route. I'm open to some experienced advice on this one. How well do flaperons work compared to regular flaps.

Also have foward hatches to finish in preperation for making a plug to make a cowling mold from, just another thing I'v yet to do. I have fiberglass experience which should help. Always something more to learn.

Wings on tubes are solid feeling they also have a trailing edge dowl for alignment.
Leroy
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Personally i have never liked flaperons. If used with to much deflection of "flaps" aileron effectiveness at slow speeds gets sluggish, and the airplane becomes more apt to tip stalling.

The only times i have ever seen flaperons used and eliminate those problems, is when slots or slats were used in conjunction with the flaperons.

So IMO, go with seperate flaps and ailerons. And if you really wanna go crazy, split the flaps into top/bottom segments and make speed brakes out of them, or use some robart fowler flap hinges and have fowler flaps.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by invertmast View Post
Personally i have never liked flaperons. If used with to much deflection of "flaps" aileron effectiveness at slow speeds gets sluggish, and the airplane becomes more apt to tip stalling.

The only times i have ever seen flaperons used and eliminate those problems, is when slots or slats were used in conjunction with the flaperons.

So IMO, go with seperate flaps and ailerons. And if you really wanna go crazy, split the flaps into top/bottom segments and make speed brakes out of them, or use some robart fowler flap hinges and have fowler flaps.
Thanks for that little tidbit. I wish I had more aeronautical knowledge about these things.Sounds like you may have an answer to this question. Why can,t the flap function upward like a speed brake, what happenes in compared to standard flap deployment and at what degree would it be more a brake than a flap. I hope I said that right. I'm intrested in your opinion and welcome others to express theirs. Thank you, Leroy
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Leroy Gardner View Post
Thanks for that little tidbit. I wish I had more aeronautical knowledge about these things.Sounds like you may have an answer to this question. Why can,t the flap function upward like a speed brake, what happenes in compared to standard flap deployment and at what degree would it be more a brake than a flap. I hope I said that right. I'm intrested in your opinion and welcome others to express theirs. Thank you, Leroy
I haven't played much with reflex (some call it spoilerons) on anything but gliders and flying wings. Some say that on a normal airplane it allows you to increase the AOA on landing without the risk of tip stalling since the theoretical chord line is lower than if there were no reflex/spoilerons.

But I haven't felt the need to deal with that (plus when is the last time you saw a real airplane landing with the trailing edge reflexed up instead of dropped flaps)...
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:54 PM
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Invertmast you set my mind a going on this flap / brake thing, could a servo be put in top of wing to operate a speed brake inboard and how long, just thinking ?.

Another couple picts. with gear on and engine mounted, will have 2" clearance with 16" prop in plane position, wheels are 2 3/4" but could be 3".

May get a pitts style muffler so I don't have to make big cheeks on cowling, still working a few things out, Leroy
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:59 AM
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Looks like an Extra to me, not a Tiger.

Andy
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 08:11 AM
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Do you mean a separate speed brake infront of each flap, to be used along with the flaps? If so sure. I would do separate flaps and ailerons and have the speed brake about the same span as the flap, and maybe 1 1/2 or 2" wide.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 09:39 AM
Art Schmitz
United States, TN, Crossville
Joined Jan 2012
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Leroy, do it the easy way and experience zero pitching.
Definitely go with separate flaps. Determine the area of each. Add 1/3 of this area forward of each flap hinge line.This provides area above and below the TE.
The beauty is that slight deployment acts as flaps, more deployment as speed brakes.No pitch changes.
As you enter the speed brake function you will need to add some throttle.
The easiest way to accomplish this is to use 1/32 ac plywood and secure it to the top of each flap with thin carpet tape. Best to size it to the entire flap.
One standard servo concealed @ wing center can do this.
art

( this method was designed for model use by Pattern champion Wolfgang Matt on his CUARE design where I first experienced it. )
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 09:50 AM
Art Schmitz
United States, TN, Crossville
Joined Jan 2012
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Another performance enhancing method is to go with negative wing tips, such as is seen on the UGLY STIK design and high performance sailplanes.
The true span of a wing is measured at the TE.
Advantages include more precise slow speed turning and lessened vortex drag at all speeds.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:25 AM
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Andy it's not even close to a 300, fuse is to boxie for one thing and wings are straight, no taper.

Invertmast and Lindart Just to make it easy I'm going to go with conventional flaps, some of what you say is some what over my head. I'll use the aileron strips that came with kit for ailerons and I think they will be fine. I have come to the conclusion that speed brakes are for jet liners and warbirds deployed after touch down. I was more concerned about landing speed with a large prop.

There is still much to do, choke is a bugger, will use a servo on gear channel. I need to order the servos and get the muffler, Pitts type, before I can work on cowl plug and sheet wings, will also redesign the vert. & horizonal stab's.

Christmas is right around the corner, would like to wish you all a merry one and if you been good santa might bring you a Tiger Leroy
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:44 AM
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Got one! You gotta love fluorescent orange!
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 01:08 PM
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"Hey Cooler", white & orange, well tigers had those colors on them " but no pilot". Ya gotta have something in there, looks like you never got the film off the canopy, did you know there was/is one on it?. Leroy
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:41 AM
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I really thought that building something in a unique way would generate alot more intrest thats the only reason I decided to do the build via a thread in the first place. On top of that I asked if there was any following and intrest before I started a thread on a bashed Tiger 60 build. I'm some what dissapointed, could it be the time of year or maybe it's true, few want to build anymore, even an easy one

Should have put this in the electric forumes, pretty busy up there and everyone, or almost all of them are building an ARF but their not really building anything, those planes are already built but you have to add components and put it together. Still thats assembly not building, hard to get any pride out of that and have you ever seen one of those ARF's get bashed ?. Just wondering how long the availability of many of these kits will last at this rate.

We'll see what kind of responce these comments get, Leroy
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