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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:15 PM
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turk1's Avatar
Istanbul, Turkey
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I m in doubt if that small needle bearing on con rod is a better solution?Imho,Seems a potantial bomb to explode to damage the engine.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:16 PM
Horizon Hobby Employee
United States, IL, Mahomet
Joined Jun 2006
595 Posts
The lower end uses a needle bearing. It was a late change in development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by earlwb View Post
The engine uses a bushed rod, The instructions state to use a 20:1 ratio for the fuel to use in the engine.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 12:22 AM
Grumpa Tom
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Sep 2003
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Guys, if you have not done so already, read through the manual for this new engine. It has a lot of interesting development info as well as how to run the engine.

It says the 10CC gas engine is part of Horizon's "New small block series" of gas engines. That's an interesting statement.

Although there was a misstep in claiming the 10cc was the smallest and Dar Zeelon jumped on that to the defense of NGH, well Evo also has a 40 and a 36 size engine and I would not be surprised to see gas versions of those and they may be testing them right now. So indeed Horizon may actually have the smallest in their Evolution line.

I was going to further mention in relation to the needle bearing conrod that although it was a misstep to say the 10cc has it when the manual says it does not, again there could be an engine undergoing testing that has a needle bearing. Well Craig Greening just told us the 10cc has it but the manual has not been updated to reflect that.

The manual does state that this engine was under development and testing for two and a half years! Don't for a minute think that there are not other sizes being tested as we speak.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 12:29 AM
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Israel, Ramat HaSharon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Greening View Post
The lower end uses a needle bearing. It was a late change in development.
Craig,


Where did you manage to see the part-list of this engine?
Unlike other Evo engines, it is not accessible from the main page...

Can you post the link here?

Larger Evolution engines are produced by MVVS and even the 26 cc version, has a needle bearing con-rod (MVVS used one for their F1 #3070F/R .40 engines too).
But this one is aparently Sanye manufactured, like their glow .60NX.

That engine has a bronze-bushed con-rod; the same as for the .52 engine - see the part-list.



So, can you reveal your source for the info regarding the needle bearing bottom-end?

**Do you already have such an engine?*
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 12:43 AM
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Israel, Ramat HaSharon
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Greg,


Page 9 in the manual for this engine, still says the con-rod is bronze-bushed.

Manual
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 02:23 AM
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everyone is waiting for a reliable small gas engine which NGH is not. why is it so technically difficult to produce?
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 02:32 AM
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Israel, Ramat HaSharon
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Don't know, Ken.

I cannot personally remark regarding the NGH's reliability, or lack thereof...
How do you know it is unreliable?
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 07:24 AM
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Dar, Craig -works- for Horizon, so you can assume he has access to all sorts of things we do not.

This should be interesting to see how they reliably they run and the settled street price. If it gets down into the $150 range, I might try one.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 07:24 AM
Horizon Hobby Employee
United States, IL, Mahomet
Joined Jun 2006
595 Posts
If you notice the text under my user name it may lend a little credibility to my statement. I sit twenty feet away from the two guys who have spent considerable time developing this engine. They have many many hours of bench and flight testing, and I have flown the engine as part of the Hangar 9 Meridian10cc aircraft development.

The engine has a needle bearing lower end.

Craig



Quote:
Originally Posted by DarZeelon View Post
Craig,


Where did you manage to see the part-list of this engine?
Unlike other Evo engines, it is not accessible from the main page...

Can you post the link here?

Larger Evolution engines are produced by MVVS and even the 26 cc version, has a needle bearing con-rod (MVVS used one for their F1 #3070F/R .40 engines too).
But this one is aparently Sanye manufactured, like their glow .60NX.

That engine has a bronze-bushed con-rod; the same as for the .52 engine - see the part-list.



So, can you reveal your source for the info regarding the needle bearing bottom-end?

**Do you already have such an engine?*
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 08:27 AM
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Israel, Ramat HaSharon
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Craig,


I did see that you reside in Champaign IL...

But that could also be the other guys, from Tower.

I do not intend to shake your credibility in any way, but how come they still specify 5% oil; also in the manual?

A needle bearing con-rod two-stroke engine does 'very well, thank you' with just 2% oil (3% for break-in) and 5% could very rapidly foul the spark-plug.

Is it because the top-end is still a bronze-bush?
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 08:55 AM
Horizon Hobby Employee
United States, IL, Mahomet
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I can't speak to the specifics of the oil recommendation, if you want to run 2 or 3% oil that's up to you. We recommend 20:1 and the engines operates great at this ratio.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmot View Post
Guys, if you have not done so already, read through the manual for this new engine. It has a lot of interesting development info as well as how to run the engine.
Those gas related details would be known to anyone who has actually attempted to run a small engine like this on gas, but at least they figured it out in R&D and provided a very detailed manual for their customers.

Quote:
I was going to further mention in relation to the needle bearing conrod that although it was a misstep to say the 10cc has it when the manual says it does not, again there could be an engine undergoing testing that has a needle bearing. Well Craig Greening just told us the 10cc has it but the manual has not been updated to reflect that.

The manual does state that this engine was under development and testing for two and a half years! Don't for a minute think that there are not other sizes being tested as we speak.
If it's been in the works for 2 1/2 years, does it make sense to rush a release when a manual update would have taken an hour maybe? I guess it would take longer because I doubt they have all the languages on staff in one location. We can see the bearing issue is a concern with prospective buyers, so why misinform them?

This also explains why the Magnum engine never came to life. They would have been produced at the same place, and HP doesn't actually develop anything, they just sell it.

I wish I could place that carb, looks awfully familiar?

Greg
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 09:34 AM
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Craig, thanks for the update. That is good to know about the rod. I look forward to getting one when they become available.

But I don't have a problem with a engine being either way, bushed or with needle bearings.

I think it will be interesting too, in that the manual stated it was a ABC engine. That could be nice. I don't think anyone has produced a gas engine with a ABC cylinder setup before. That may boost its performance enough to make it pretty noticeable in comparison to a ringed piston engine.

Since the Evo 10cc is a small block .60 engine, then it is about the same size as the NGH 9cc engine, so they may be a bolt oin replacemernt. I haven't measured one of the NGH 9cc engines yet, to see if the bolt hole pattern matches up or not.

Both engines likely have similar performance as they are so close together in displacement
But the extra 1cc may make for a slight improvement. The NGH engine though has very shallow transfer and bypass ports due to it being a overbored engine. I haven't looked at the Evo engine yet to see if it is similar with shallow ports or not. The shallow porting though would mainly affect high RPM running as the engine would be flow limited in how much air fuel it could flow like that.

Mr Duke Fox a long time ago came up with the concept that a model engine needs less oil as the displacement gets larger and larger and more oil as it gets smaller. You see that with the 1/2a engines or smaller versus the big ones like the big Super Tigre engines for example. The little engines may be using as much as 33% oil in the glow fuel whereas a big Super Tigre erngine may be running fine with 10% oil. So a 20:1 ratio is not really a problem except to those flyers who don't want to clean their planes after flying it.
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Last edited by earlwb; Dec 07, 2012 at 09:40 AM. Reason: add more info
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 09:47 AM
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Istanbul, Turkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarZeelon View Post
Don't know, Ken.

I cannot personally remark regarding the NGH's reliability, or lack thereof...
How do you know it is unreliable?
Hi Dar, though some people can fly with it successfully I cant run it reliably on a plane.So I just began testing again after some mod on LSN(Glow type carb) and today(at home) a short run seemed successful but I hope tomorrow I can play freely.IMHO, the problem with NGH9 CC is the LSN profile cant match with the regulator needs.So I cut about 1 mm from the tip of LSN to make sure it will restrict the low end satisfactorily.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 10:41 AM
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OK, Craig.

No contest.


Turk,

Thanks for sharing your experience with the NGH.
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