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Old Dec 04, 2012, 06:26 PM
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Bulgaria, Sofia-grad, Sofia
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Graupner WP Extra 300 Leki (flight without top of fuselage)

Hello guys,
Yesterday I received this little jewel. It is a Graupner WP Extra 300 Leki Bind-n-Fly micro 3D model. AUW is about 45grams and wing span is 41cm.

For more information, please visit my blog: ArxangelRC.blogspot.com

It has a display stand, which also incorporates the battery charger. It cost me around 93 Euros delivered, and the supplied Graupner GR-12S Rx alone costs between 60-70 Euros, so it a pretty good deal. The battery is 1s 150mah li-po. It also has a landing gear, but I am not sure I will use it since there is no smooth landing area where I usually fly.

I have not flown it yet, since I fly only on weekends, but the model looks REALLY well made, all control surfaces are well centered and straight. There are no warped parts. The only drawback is that the fuselage is sealed, so there is no access to the servos, motor and receiver. I do have an idea, however, to carefully make a hatch in order to be able to remove the Rx in case I needed it for a bigger and more expensive plane, where a good Rx is required.

For now I can only provide pics, but I hope I will be able to provide some video this weekend.

Enjoy:













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Old Dec 04, 2012, 08:43 PM
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Southlake, TX
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That looks exactly like the Nitro Planes/GeminiRC planes that sell for $65 USD shipped off Ebay in the US.

Gemini RC

Nitroplanes Extra 300

For $93 Euro's a Parkzone Polecat or Spitfire is a way better plane and if you are paying 60 Euros for RX's, its time to switch TX's to something DSM2 combatible.

DSM2 compatible RX's are $10 and clone 6 channel AR6400's with 2 onboard servos and a 2 amp brushed ESC are only $24 shipped to your door.

Removing the RX, 2 servos and esc from this extra and replacing it with an AR6400 will remove nearly 5g of dead weight and make for a better flying plane
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
That looks exactly like the Nitro Planes/GeminiRC planes that sell for $65 USD shipped off Ebay in the US.

Gemini RC

Nitroplanes Extra 300

For $93 Euro's a Parkzone Polecat or Spitfire is a way better plane and if you are paying 60 Euros for RX's, its time to switch TX's to something DSM2 combatible.

DSM2 compatible RX's are $10 and clone 6 channel AR6400's with 2 onboard servos and a 2 amp brushed ESC are only $24 shipped to your door.

Removing the RX, 2 servos and esc from this extra and replacing it with an AR6400 will remove nearly 5g of dead weight and make for a better flying plane
Well, I also have a DX8 and I use it with R610 Orange Rxs, BUT I would NEVER use the DX8 on a bigger, faster, more expensive plane. I just don't trust it, the radio, the sticks, the switches feel like a toy. The Graupner, on the other hand, feels like the real thing, and so far acts like it too. I would trust my Graupner radio and receivers with my life, and that is why it is worth to me to buy a Graupner receiver for 70 Euro, and get a micro plane with a battery just for an extra 20 Euros along with the receiver. So in fact in my mind, this model costs 20 Euros, and if I need the Rx for something else I can always put one of the R415 Orange Rxs from HK, so the total on this plane comes at 35USD for a BNF, delivered via DHL.

How can you beat that price?

Also, you have to keep in mind that I live in Europe, and shipping here from the US, would put an extra 10-15 USD on top of that 65USD for the models you mentioned. And even if those models are available here, stuff generally costs more in Europe, but you don't get a high quality Rx that you can use on bigger planes, you get an AIO thing that does not work for me.

Also, it is normal to be re-branded something else. After all it is cheaper to use something that is good and is already made than to try and develop from scratch. I also have an LRP PocketStram and it is a re-branded Pearl Glider, the difference is that mine came PNF. Despite the higher price I do not regret a single extra cent spent on the LRP because it is an astonishing plane with the electronics provided.

So, the moral of the story is... don't be too quick to judge. I plan every purchase very carefully and put a lot of thought into everything I buy, and this Extra was no impulse purchase either.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 07:30 AM
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I think when you eventually open this plane up, you'll see it has a cheap chinese copy of of the Graupner RX, just like the R610 is a cheap Chinese copy of a an AR6100.

The plane is an OK deal for $65 US, but when flown back to back with a Polecat, there is no comparison. The polecat flies so much better. Smoother, crisper, better feel, better balance, better climb, better aerobatics, better landings, better everything. The best TX in the world can't make a pig fly better.

And if you want something that can do aerobatics, a Sukhoi XP or an Sbach 3D will make this plane look like a HZ Champ in comparison. These knock off's barely have enough extra power to climb, so they won't be performing a torque roll with a punch out.

This isn't a sales pitch from HH. I've flown just about every micro plane, including these and these are "OK" for $65 USD, but if I had to recommend one of these for $65 USD or a Polecat or XP for $90, those other 2 planes are most definitely worth the extra $25... unless someone wants a plane to set on a shelf and look at it, then I'd say "go with the cheapest one".

If you have a DX8, the Sbach 3D with SFG's will fly everywhere this plane will, but will also hover, harrier, flat spin, knife edge (and any other aerobatic manuever you can think of) better than this plane and works great with $4 batteries from HK.

The only thing I can recommend for this plane is buy extra prop shafts and props, because my prop shaft broke on the first landing (not even a crash, but a gliding landing into grass). I replaced it with a HH propshaft /prop and so far, no problems.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
I think when you eventually open this plane up, you'll see it has a cheap chinese copy of of the Graupner RX, just like the R610 is a cheap Chinese copy of a an AR6100.

The plane is an OK deal for $65 US, but when flown back to back with a Polecat, there is no comparison. The polecat flies so much better. Smoother, crisper, better feel, better balance, better climb, better aerobatics, better landings, better everything. The best TX in the world can't make a pig fly better.

And if you want something that can do aerobatics, a Sukhoi XP or an Sbach 3D will make this plane look like a HZ Champ in comparison. These knock off's barely have enough extra power to climb, so they won't be performing a torque roll with a punch out.

This isn't a sales pitch from HH. I've flown just about every micro plane, including these and these are "OK" for $65 USD, but if I had to recommend one of these for $65 USD or a Polecat or XP for $90, those other 2 planes are most definitely worth the extra $25... unless someone wants a plane to set on a shelf and look at it, then I'd say "go with the cheapest one".

If you have a DX8, the Sbach 3D with SFG's will fly everywhere this plane will, but will also hover, harrier, flat spin, knife edge (and any other aerobatic manuever you can think of) better than this plane and works great with $4 batteries from HK.

The only thing I can recommend for this plane is buy extra prop shafts and props, because my prop shaft broke on the first landing (not even a crash, but a gliding landing into grass). I replaced it with a HH propshaft /prop and so far, no problems.
This is the first micro plane I have, and I only bought it primarily because of the good deal on the Rx. I will have a look at the planes you mention and when I learn to fly this little Extra, if I decide I want to dig deeper into the 3D flight stuff I might get one of your recommendations.

As for the cheap Graupner copy Rx I can only have one reaction to that statement - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (no offence intended). If there were cheap copies of Graupner Rxs I would not have bought a DX8. The problem is that the only Rxs compatible with the HOTT Graupner systems are the ones Graupner sells, and since this model comes from Graupner it is impossible to have a cheap copy Rx in it. I don't think they would ever risk doing that.

But just in case you know of some cheap HOTT Graupner Rx copies, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me where to find some, because I love my Graupner MX-12 radio and I hate the DX8 but am keeping it purely because of the cheap Rxs. The cheapest HOTT Rxs Graupner sells are around 25 Euros, but the telemetry range is limited to only 800m, and they only come with some micro plugs that are not compatible to JR servo leads.

This is a link to the Extra specs on the Graupner site:
http://www.graupner.de/en/products/a...T/product.aspx

And this is the Rx in question:
http://www.graupner.de/en/products/8...5/product.aspx
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 01:51 PM
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The RX that comes with this model with the other mfg's is a 1S compatible 6 channel with 1.25mm connectors.

I would think the Graupner version uses a similar RX, to be compatible with the servos and ESC that all of the other 3 versions of the plane are compatible with.

This RX would be a short range RX, not suitable for large planes and would be way less reliable and have a shorter range than a R610 with a satellite receiver from HK.

The Gear is about 4g too heavy for an aerobatic 1S plane (and the airframe a few more grams too teavy), but the Aileron Servo and Linkage are very good and would be a good mate to an AR6400 using the new 1.25mm to 1.0mm adapter plugs from HK and isn't much heavier than the Linear/bellcrank set up and lighter than dual linears.

As for "3D" this plane can barely get out of its own way, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Loops are possible with a shallow dive and 2 consecutive rolls are possible, but won't be axial and all aerobatics need to be done in the first half of the battery, because the power of the second half of the battery isn't enough to loop.

Doing exactly the same patterns, in the same weather, using the same battery, a Polecat feels "magical" in comparison, and I'm on record as saying the Polecat was a plane I had zero interest in and would not buy when it first came out.

Maybe your flight experiences will be different, but when I flew it I thought "meh, it flies". I'm very price sensitive, but compared to a Polecat, an XP or a Kyosho Edge 540, it would be a distant 4th place, even though it was less than 2/3 the price and wouldn't be on the same continent as an SBACH 3D at any price.

It's good to see they have Prop's/shafts as spare parts, because the shaft on mine was made of glass. If the replacements break, I'd swap in a HH or Kyosho shaft, which are much tougher.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 03:44 PM
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I have provided a link to the specific Rx that Graupner has put in this model, and although it has micro plug leads, it is by no means short range. The only short range is the 1km limit on the telemetry link, the Tx signal, on the other hand is tested at 4km and it works without LRS modules just fine.

Also I would advise that you take a look at THIS video, unless you've already seen it. His tests prove that the Orange Rxs do not benefit from the satelite Rx in regards to signal quality, and I would NOT expect that an original Graupner Rx that costs 70 Euros would have worse performance than a cheap 6 USD DSM2 Orange Rx.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 06:34 PM
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How do do you get to the RX to push the bind button?

One the cheap RX versions there is a external bind plug.

You can't even see the RX, let alone push a bind button on it.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
How do do you get to the RX to push the bind button?

One the cheap RX versions there is a external bind plug.

You can't even see the RX, let alone push a bind button on it.
Well, it has been thought of - the Rx is apparently fixed in place and there is a small hole on the bottom side of the fuselage and the bind button is directly below that hole. So all you need to do is push it with something 1.5-2mm in diameter. The binding was pretty straight forward, no problems at all. The button was right where it was supposed to be - right below the hole. Also, there is an LED right next to the button, so when you plug in the battery you can see the LED though the hole and you can clearly see the button next to it. And that is exactly how the real Graupner high quality Rx was designed, its not some cheap copy. Like I said, as of yet, I have not been able to find cheap copies.

The fact is that, like with the Orange DSM2 Rxs, if you have a cheap copy it will most likely NOT have a telemetry link, but I do have telemetry link with this Rx and I am able to monitor the battery voltage on my Tx display, so I am certain it is not some cheap copy but the real 70 Euro Rx.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 02:50 AM
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So, due to windy and snowy weekend conditions, a maiden was out of the question. Will try to do it if I get a calm day and some free time during the week, if not I hope the weather next weekend will be better for flying.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:11 PM
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Here is a small compilation from a couple of flights. It handles relatively easy, but even at 80% expo you have to be very gentle with the sticks. It flies for 6min WOT and is quite maneuverable.

Graupner WP Extra 300 Leki Micro 3D (4 min 13 sec)
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 06:02 PM
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Hi guys,
when I opened the fuselage to replace the shaft and cogwheel (broke the shaft in a recent strong wind related incident), I realized they had put in really big servos. The servos look like 4 gram ones, and since I have exactly 3 of the HobbyKing Micro 2 gram servos, I just might put those in and shave a couple of grams off. That will definitely improve flight times and aerobatic performance.

Here is how it looks on the inside:

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Old Feb 06, 2013, 04:48 PM
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Basically, I flew the plane in the condition you see in the picture in the previous post above - no fuselage top part. This makes it about 6 grams lighter, so I was really curious to see how it will fly and handle. It could stand to loose a couple more grams by replacing the servos with lighter ones.

Graupner Extra 300 Leki - flight without top of fuselage (1 min 13 sec)
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 02:21 PM
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I'm planning to buy this plane but replace the Rx, because I don't have HOTT Graupner Transmitter. The price is € 39,00 ARF, if I sell the Rx for about 20 euro (which I think is a very reasonable price), the plane will cost me only 20 euro included all electronics (I have a few Flysky Rx laying around) . IMHO this is a bargain! Does anyone think I will be albe to sell its Rx easily for 20 Euro?
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagob View Post
I'm planning to buy this plane but replace the Rx, because I don't have HOTT Graupner Transmitter. The price is € 39,00 ARF, if I sell the Rx for about 20 euro (which I think is a very reasonable price), the plane will cost me only 20 euro included all electronics (I have a few Flysky Rx laying around) . IMHO this is a bargain! Does anyone think I will be albe to sell its Rx easily for 20 Euro?
Should be able to, the retail price of that Rx is around 30-35 Euro. Keep in mind that the Rx is glued in there, so you will need to be very careful when removing it.
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