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Old Dec 08, 2012, 01:26 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
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Oh yeah... That's it. Lets keep the economy and demand for our products low. We are making good money and we get to stick it to the average guy on the street. Just because they have trimmed the fat doesn't mean that their new efficient business model wouldn't do better in a better economic environment.

What I'm seeing is people are just so bitter about the bad economy they will look for any excuse to blame someone for it.... As though anyone truly likes a protracted economic recovery.... Sheesh.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 01:56 AM
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flyzwell's Avatar
So Cal
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If their profits just hit a new all time high, why are they continuing to drive wages to new all time lows?

If they want to do business in a better economic environment they should pay more and hire more so people would begin spending again. Instead they're of sitting on huge piles of cash.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 02:35 AM
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United States, OH, Brilliant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
Oh yeah... That's it. Lets keep the economy and demand for our products low. We are making good money and we get to stick it to the average guy on the street. Just because they have trimmed the fat doesn't mean that their new efficient business model wouldn't do better in a better economic environment.
Why you're starting to sound like... a progressive!!!
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 10:04 AM
In Development Now
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Originally Posted by peterp1964 View Post
Not just with this recovery...recoveries have become shallower ever since the advent of voodoo economics.
It's not Voodoo economics. It's the nation going deep and deeper into debt. When we finally are broke or decide to fix the problem, the adjustment will be harder the longer we wait.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 10:04 AM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by flyzwell View Post
If their profits just hit a new all time high, why are they continuing to drive wages to new all time lows?

If they want to do business in a better economic environment they should pay more and hire more so people would begin spending again. Instead they're of sitting on huge piles of cash.
Wages are a market.

Workforce is a product, wages are the price.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 11:35 AM
Time for me to Fly...
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United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
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The workforce is a market and wages are the price. Definitely true. When it was a sellers market the workforce made better money and nobody complained that they were taking advantage of the situation. Now it's a buyers market and everybody thinks the corporations are taking advantage of it. Well, they are just like the sellers did when the market favored them.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 11:38 AM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
The workforce is a market and wages are the price. Definitely true. When it was a sellers market the workforce made better money and nobody complained that they were taking advantage of the situation. Now it's a buyers market and everybody thinks the corporations are taking advantage of it. Well, they are just like the sellers did when the market favored them.
Yep.

And, unless the costs in the 'seller's market' allow a corporation to charge a product price that still makes a profit, those jobs may disappear.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
OK, you're right. All the corporation leaders got together and decided not to pay their employees what their worth and they all also agreed not to hire the good employees away from each other at higher pay.
so you agree that the pay trend we're seeing does not jive with the mantra we're hearing and your objection appear to be that you think I think it's a conspiracy. I don't think it's a conspiracy:

In the real world, corporation leaders only look out for their corporation's bottom line...they are not driven by the sentiments you ascribe to them. It is natural for most of them to come to the same conclusion and decide to delay hiring so that the shell-shocked workers will be willing to accept in the near future lower wages for the same kind of work (at better pay) they did prior to the financial meltdown.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiana_Geoff View Post
It's not Voodoo economics. It's the nation going deep and deeper into debt. When we finally are broke or decide to fix the problem, the adjustment will be harder the longer we wait.
of course it's voodoo economics...is your memory so short that you don't remember who it was that "proved deficits don't matter" ?
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 12:12 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
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Originally Posted by peterp1964 View Post
so you agree that the pay trend we're seeing does not jive with the mantra we're hearing and your objection appear to be that you think I think it's a conspiracy. I don't think it's a conspiracy:

In the real world, corporation leaders only look out for their corporation's bottom line...they are not driven by the sentiments you ascribe to them. It is natural for most of them to come to the same conclusion and decide to delay hiring so that the shell-shocked workers will be willing to accept in the near future lower wages for the same kind of work (at better pay) they did prior to the financial meltdown.
In the real world the companies that need people will hire people. If they don't need people, they won't. If they are doing well enough that hireing quality people makes sense they will offer higher pay to get those people. Do they hold back to keep the workforce down? Maybe some do. Did the unions hold their feet to the fire so that they would accept unreasonable demands in the past? Everyone knows they did. That's the game. Will this continue forever? No, because as the economy recovers its not in their best interest to do so just like it wasnt in the unions best interest to keep making unreasonable demands. So the good and smart companies will go after the best workers and everybody will have to follow suit or be left with the dregs at the bottom of the barrel.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 01:09 PM
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So Cal
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Michigan's "right-to-work" law is the latest example of how Unions are being squashed. They've done a lot of good things in the past for workers rights, but they seem to have gotten too greedy and are now feeling the backlash, giving corporations the upper hand.

I don't understand how the economy is ever going to recover if corporations won't spend and people can't spend.

More massive stimulus programs? Infrastructure spending?
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 01:47 PM
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United States, OH, Brilliant
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Originally Posted by flyzwell View Post
I don't understand how the economy is ever going to recover if corporations won't spend and people can't spend.
Exactly. This is the one point that most conservatives refuse to accept. It's the core reason debunking "trickle down economics" that we've seen over and over again.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 01:51 PM
Time for me to Fly...
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United States, MI, Fenton
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Right to work is a huge good thing for Michigan. For years we've had the workforce and infrastructure to support new auto plants and every time a foreign company came to the states to build cars we saw them locate south of our border. Finally... Maybe it too late... Some of those companies might be interested in looking to locate here.

How does the economy recover from where it is? Very slowly. Little at a time things will get better as they do momentum will build and at that point it will become obvious how our economy is recovering. Right now, it's still a slow process. It is happening however. At least here it is in Michigan and we've been down longer and deeper than most of the country.

There are areas in Oakland and Livingston counties where developers are actually building new homes again. How is that for a good sign?
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 02:09 PM
In Development Now
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Originally Posted by peterp1964 View Post
of course it's voodoo economics...is your memory so short that you don't remember who it was that "proved deficits don't matter" ?
When have I said that deficits don't matter?
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
Right to work is a huge good thing for Michigan.
and when it becomes evident that it isn't a good thing for Michigan ? whose fault will it be ?
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