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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:44 PM
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dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
Why does ones conscience have to limit profit? People that place profit above everything else in their lives, IMHO, live a miserable existence. But limiting profit isn't the answer. The answer is to live a balanced life. Imagine any company's CEO telling their employees, we are taking new steps to limit our profit. Do you think anyone would cheer that statement? Would you feel secure as an employee working for a company like that? I know I wouldn't. Now, if treating people poorly is the method used to boost profit, well, that's different. Now we're back to those that need to balance their lives. I think that by I large most successful companies treat their employees well and in doing so enjoy heightened levels of productivity. This generally increases profitability. That's not a crime.
I agree, but unfortunately treating employees poorly is too frequently a method of increasing profit; "increasing productivity" by not giving much in the way of raises (while sitting on a record pile of cash), and making one person do the work of 2 or 3 is quite common these days.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:47 PM
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Euclid Ohio
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Shifting the goalpost.
No, I never said profit is wrong, just that putting it above all else is shortsighted and harmful.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:48 PM
Time for me to Fly...
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United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
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Most record profit earning companies are not doing what you claim. Some have done that to be sure but their days of doing that wont last long. As the economy recovers these companies will have to pay competitive wages to keep their good employees. Unfortunately, for a while now the labor market has been soft. That's just a reality. Just like it was a reality when the tables were turned and the unions forced the companies to meet unreasonable demands.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 11:01 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
No, I never said profit is wrong, just that putting it above all else is shortsighted and harmful.
You attempted to imply that some level of profit should be considered too much. The goalpost shift was from that, to the new claim I bolded out of your recent post.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
Most record profit earning companies are not doing what you claim. Some have done that to be sure but their days of doing that wont last long. As the economy recovers these companies will have to pay competitive wages to keep their good employees. Unfortunately, for a while now the labor market has been soft. That's just a reality. Just like it was a reality when the tables were turned and the unions forced the companies to meet unreasonable demands.
Corporate earnings as a percentage of GDP are at an all time high, while wages as a percentage of GDP are at an all time low.
It seems the economy has recovered nicely for the top tier. Meanwhile for some reason the labor market still remains soft and has not shared in the recovery.
In 2010, 93 percent of the income that was added to our economy accrued to the top 1 percent of families. Is this the new norm?
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 01:10 AM
Time for me to Fly...
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The labor market is soft. How can workers expect to be paid like that isnt the case? Too many people are out of work for those that are not to get too demanding. there are plenty that would be happy to have their job at their current rate of pay. Inflation is also adding to the record profits. They may be earning more dollars but those dollars are worth less. It's like ve been saying, a recovery is happening. It's just happening slowly. Thats good. A fast recovery would be a fragile one.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 01:46 AM
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If corporate profits are at an all time high, shouldn't the labor force be dragged along with it?
With wages being at an all time low, and the high unemployment numbers there seems to be a dichotomy.

Something seems out of whack with this recovery
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 05:50 AM
We want... Information!
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Hastings, New Zealand
Joined Jan 2001
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Originally Posted by flyzwell View Post
If corporate profits are at an all time high...
With wages being at an all time low...
Something seems out of whack with this recovery
Haven't you heard? It's called 'Redistribution of Wealth'.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 06:56 AM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
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Originally Posted by flyzwell View Post
If corporate profits are at an all time high, shouldn't the labor force be dragged along with it?
With wages being at an all time low, and the high unemployment numbers there seems to be a dichotomy.

Something seems out of whack with this recovery
With labor as a market item, you are not seeing a dichotomy, you are viewing the market in action.

When a product is in overabundance, its cost decreases.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 07:51 AM
Time for me to Fly...
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United States, MI, Fenton
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Originally Posted by flyzwell View Post
If corporate profits are at an all time high, shouldn't the labor force be dragged along with it?
With wages being at an all time low, and the high unemployment numbers there seems to be a dichotomy.

Something seems out of whack with this recovery
When production is low then less workers are needed. If production was up and they needed those workers they would have to pay them better or risk losing them to another company that was willing to do so. That is the labor market in a nutshell. Now, if companies are making record profits during a low production cycle that's pretty telling. It means when things were humming along at full tilt efficiencies were less than they are now. Thats a result of the work done at these companies to find a way to survive in a down economy. Apparently, they have done quite well. That's great. They can ale these lessons into the economic upswing and do even better. They will then be in a position to pay their workers well when they once again become a precious commodity. Until that time, we're just going to have to weather the storm. I know, you think corporations should out of the kindness of their hearts just pay their employees above market wages but how often do you overpay at the store out of the kindness of your heart?
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by flyzwell View Post
If corporate profits are at an all time high, shouldn't the labor force be dragged along with it?
With wages being at an all time low, and the high unemployment numbers there seems to be a dichotomy.

Something seems out of whack with this recovery
Not just with this recovery...recoveries have become shallower ever since the advent of voodoo economics.

Look at the chart below...see how alike all recessions prior to the '90 recession appear to be ?...ever since the '80s (voodoo economics) it has become harder and harder to get out of a recession.

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Old Dec 07, 2012, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
They will then be in a position to pay their workers well when they once again become a precious commodity.
For a while now we've been hearing the mantra that says "even though there's plenty of jobs in manufacturing hiring is not soaring because the workforce lacks the skills required for these unfilled positions."

If what you say above is what corporates actually do, then wages in manufacturing should be soaring...are they ?
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 10:05 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
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Originally Posted by peterp1964 View Post
For a while now we've been hearing the mantra that says "even though there's plenty of jobs in manufacturing hiring is not soaring because the workforce lacks the skills required for these unfilled positions."

If what you say above is what corporates actually do, then wages in manufacturing should be soaring...are they ?
Where have 'we' allegedly been hearing that mantra?


Given the current state of jobs, I would not expect there to be a workforce lacking in the skills required for unfilled positions; or for there to be unfilled positions.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 10:10 PM
Time for me to Fly...
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United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
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Originally Posted by peterp1964 View Post
For a while now we've been hearing the mantra that says "even though there's plenty of jobs in manufacturing hiring is not soaring because the workforce lacks the skills required for these unfilled positions."

If what you say above is what corporates actually do, then wages in manufacturing should be soaring...are they ?
OK, you're right. All the corporation leaders got together and decided not to pay their employees what their worth and they all also agreed not to hire the good employees away from each other at higher pay.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 12:13 AM
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So Cal
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Where have 'we' allegedly been hearing that mantra?


Given the current state of jobs, I would not expect there to be a workforce lacking in the skills required for unfilled positions; or for there to be unfilled positions.
I've been hearing that mantra over and over for quite some time. The latest was in an interview last night with Tim Cook about bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US.
Here's an excerpt....
"Cook dodged Williams' question as to how much an iPhone would cost if it were manufactured in the US rather than in Foxconn factories in China, where the workforce is paid significantly below US wages. "It's not as much about price," he said, "it's about the skills, etcetera. Over time there are skills that are associated with manufacturing that have left the US."


Corporations have adapted well to the economic downturn and have become meaner and leaner.
They must be happy with the status quo. It's probably in their best interest to do what they can to keep the labor force weak, and prevent a full economic recovery.
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