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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:55 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
I'm not so sure. To me, sacrificing a little profit to ensure success down the road makes sense-it did to Henry Ford when he decided to pay his employees more so they could buy his cars. Also, how much profit is ENOUGH?
Why do you feel that someone or some group should define that?

If demand exceeds supply, raising the price is valid. That may increase profit. So what?
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 09:19 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
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If demand exceeds supply and profit goes up then there is an opportunity for someone else to fill the void and bring some of that excess profit to more people and lower the prices for everyone else.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 09:23 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
If demand exceeds supply and profit goes up then there is an opportunity for someone else to fill the void and bring some of that excess profit to more people and lower the prices for everyone else.
Which would work to negate any alleged 'gouging.'

But, that would also invalidate the premise I presented, in that supply would increase against demand, and the demand would no longer exceed the supply.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 09:27 PM
Time for me to Fly...
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United States, MI, Fenton
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Which would work to negate any alleged 'gouging.'
Given the opportunity for that to occur. I really only think gouging occurs when you have a captive audience in a disaster situation. Any other time if a person tries to over charge for their product people just buy it elsewhere.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 09:35 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz View Post
Given the opportunity for that to occur. I really only think gouging occurs when you have a captive audience in a disaster situation. Any other time if a person tries to over charge for their product people just buy it elsewhere.
NO.

"Gouging" occurs where a single source artificially raises price above market value due to being the only source (for a necessity). Disasters do not create a captive audience. They DO create an imbalance of supply and demand.

But, gouging is being discussed in another thread already. My response was to dll, who seems to feel that some group or person/s should be allowed to define a limit to 'profit.'

Regulating profit would create a false market economy.

As a facetious example, if someone found a natural supply of gasoline that had a low cost of acquisition, but a limited amount, should that person be limited to only charging a price that limits profit to some arbitrary value, creating a false cheap value upon the product? Why should not the person be allowed to price the commodity at what the market will pay, whether that increases profit to some arbitrary 'too much' value or not?
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 10:46 PM
Who, ME?
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Euclid Ohio
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Why do you feel that someone or some group should define that?

If demand exceeds supply, raising the price is valid. That may increase profit. So what?
I think this is something that should considered. Also, a child doesn't know how many cookies are enough (or too much), an adult should, and adjust his behavior accordingly.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 10:57 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
I think this is something that should considered. Also, a child doesn't know how many cookies are enough (or too much), an adult should, and adjust his behavior accordingly.
Huh?

WHY do you feel that ANYONE should control how much profit another entity is 'allowed' to earn? That creates a false limit upon supply and demand.


You already mentioned it, I asked why you thought anyone should limit it for others, and you failed to explain why you thought that.


What do children and cookies have to do with it? People making a profit are not children to be limited by some nanny-state government.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 11:17 PM
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Euclid Ohio
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Huh?

WHY do you feel that ANYONE should control how much profit another entity is 'allowed' to earn? That creates a false limit upon supply and demand.


You already mentioned it, I asked why you thought anyone should limit it for others, and you failed to explain why you thought that.


What do children and cookies have to do with it? People making a profit are not children to be limited by some nanny-state government.
Where did you hear me say someone else should control it? Companies and mature adults should be SELF controlling. Unfortunately, like children, many aren't.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:08 AM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
Where did you hear me say someone else should control it? Companies and mature adults should be SELF controlling. Unfortunately, like children, many aren't.
You implied it with your post about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
I'm not so sure. To me, sacrificing a little profit to ensure success down the road makes sense-it did to Henry Ford when he decided to pay his employees more so they could buy his cars. Also, how much profit is ENOUGH?


Who determines 'enough?' You make it seem like some entity should be defining that for others.

And, what 'self-control' would you have adults use, and WHY should they conform to some ideal about 'how much profit is enough?"
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:37 AM
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Louisville, KY
Joined Apr 2001
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The free market defines enough.

When Apple was getting out of hand in China with FoxConn, Samsung showed them what enough was - and now they are the top smartphone producer.

Walmart is out of hand but Costco, Target and Ikea are showing them what enough is.

GE destroyed their brand under Jack Welch but now they are fighting back and manufacturing things again. Jack Welch's profit fantasy of turning the GE worker pension fund in to GE Capital was not enough for him but GE is now being sorted back out in to American production.

America now has several "big boys" that drive the stock market that pay very well and don't use much offshore labor; Google, Microsoft, Intel, Facebook, Cisco and Oracle. Their profits are through the roof and you need a lot of education to work for them. It is hard to say what is enough for them.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:34 PM
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So Cal
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Good examples of how companies can still make a decent profit while workers have a better quality of life.

The better off the workers are the less they rely on social programs, which in turn saves tax dollars.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 03:06 PM
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dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
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Originally Posted by stone_axe View Post
The free market defines enough.

When Apple was getting out of hand in China with FoxConn, Samsung showed them what enough was - and now they are the top smartphone producer.

Walmart is out of hand but Costco, Target and Ikea are showing them what enough is.

GE destroyed their brand under Jack Welch but now they are fighting back and manufacturing things again. Jack Welch's profit fantasy of turning the GE worker pension fund in to GE Capital was not enough for him but GE is now being sorted back out in to American production.

America now has several "big boys" that drive the stock market that pay very well and don't use much offshore labor; Google, Microsoft, Intel, Facebook, Cisco and Oracle. Their profits are through the roof and you need a lot of education to work for them. It is hard to say what is enough for them.
Good on most of 'em...Microsoft is another matter: a lot of people who work for tham are permatemps with no bennies. Also, they didn't want to pay some of their programmers OT, so they lobbied Washington State so they wouldn't have to...Washington, not wanting to lose taxes, rolled over.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:02 PM
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Euclid Ohio
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
You implied it with your post about it.




Who determines 'enough?' You make it seem like some entity should be defining that for others.

And, what 'self-control' would you have adults use, and WHY should they conform to some ideal about 'how much profit is enough?"
That entity would be one's conscience-hopefully.

Look at it this way: if the only factor considered is short-term profit, things will suffer in the long term. This usually includes the company (GM comes to mind among many others).
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:03 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
That entity would be one's conscience-hopefully.

Look at it this way: if the only factor considered is short-term profit, things will suffer in the long term. This usually includes the company (GM comes to mind among many others).
Shifting the goalpost.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:34 PM
Time for me to Fly...
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United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
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Why does ones conscience have to limit profit? People that place profit above everything else in their lives, IMHO, live a miserable existence. But limiting profit isn't the answer. The answer is to live a balanced life. Imagine any company's CEO telling their employees, we are taking new steps to limit our profit. Do you think anyone would cheer that statement? Would you feel secure as an employee working for a company like that? I know I wouldn't. Now, if treating people poorly is the method used to boost profit, well, that's different. Now we're back to those that need to balance their lives. I think that by I large most successful companies treat their employees well and in doing so enjoy heightened levels of productivity. This generally increases profitability. That's not a crime.
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