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Old Dec 06, 2012, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
it goes WAAAY back to the first E powered helis be for lipos and brushed motors
what you know as a 450 was really a 400 size motor class Align came up with 450 as a makerting tool same with the 500 it ran the same blades as older 500 brushed motor size helis

the idea of a 550 class is farly new and old at the same time it was known as the .30 size class way back when
just like 600s are the same as a .50 or .60 size, 700 is the same as .90 etc
its a pretty big mess

but the Warp is a 450 class heli
the X5 is a 550 class if on the smaller end the Atom 5.5 runs the same blades but is about the smallest 550 out since its the same heli as the Atom 500 which is the same size as an Align 500 just longer boom and blades
the 6HV will running 600 to 620 blades is about the same size as a X5 just again longer boom

so if we go by blade size only

Warp, Trex 450, Blade 400/450, Mini Protos
Trex500, Logo 400, Protos, Atom 500
Trex550, X5, Atom 5.5, Logo 500, Goblin 500
6HV, Trex600, Logo 600, Goblin 600
Trex700, X7, 7HV, Goblin 700, Logo 600SE, Logo 700

Interesting. So really there is no standard for labeling at all. Individual companies basically do what they want and some push numbers around like phone companies for marketing. But look at the Gaui X2. It's swinging 255mm blades. I think it's the only one out there? It too, seems to be a very odd ball size again. I was thinking the Warp was going to be something similar to this, a bigger than 250 but smaller than 450 size heli. Turns out the rotor on the Warp will be BIGGER than my 450 swinging 325mm blades. I suppose there is no real need for a "standard" in labeling. As long as we are able to communicate like this to figure these things out.

It's very interesting how things progressed and changed. You sir have filled a few hours of my days with one of my favorite pass time. Research! Thanks for keying me in. I did a quick google before but i did not find anything about early 450 brushed motors. Apparently, i should have been looking for 400? Either way it's all very interesting to me. Off to do more reading.

Oh yeah, what about the flybar aspect. Am i wrong that they have a slow rotation rate compared to FBL? At least in the sim they do. I've never flown one on a real CP. The sim feels pretty accurate with my other FBL models though.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:59 AM
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X2 is in the 250 class along with the Trex 250 and Blade 300X
lol
the NX4 is in the same class as the T-rex 500 but nitro which i dont see selling well there was a nitro conversion kit for the T-rex 500 and it didnt sell at all
flight times wernt any better and it had less power
so yea they all have there own numbering

flybar can be fast or slow its all in how the mixing is set up and paddle type and weight
the trade off is the faster the more twitchy the heli is
with FBL you get the crack fast roll and pitch rates with the stability of VERY SLOW and heavy paddles
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
X2 is in the 250 class along with the Trex 250 and Blade 300X
lol
the NX4 is in the same class as the T-rex 500 but nitro which i dont see selling well there was a nitro conversion kit for the T-rex 500 and it didnt sell at all
flight times wernt any better and it had less power
so yea they all have there own numbering

flybar can be fast or slow its all in how the mixing is set up and paddle type and weight
the trade off is the faster the more twitchy the heli is
with FBL you get the crack fast roll and pitch rates with the stability of VERY SLOW and heavy paddles

Thanks for the info.

Yeah, i'm aware the X2 is similar to the 250. But it's also much bigger. The main rotor alone is much bigger. I was hoping the Warp was going to be something like that too. The X2 actually is a very interesting heli for me. I'm sure i would prefer that over any other 250 class as well. Just like i feel about the X5 in the 550 class. The X4 is actually almost the same size as the X5. It is smaller, but in regards to the fact that it uses a 6S pack and the same diameter tail boom. Some of the parts are interchangeable between the X4 and X5 too. I think the X4 labeling misleads people into thinking it's a 400-450 size heli. Since these labels are obviously confusing. I think most people look at the X4 and X5 pricing and go "Damn, the X4 is almost the same price, and it's only a 450 size". I don't think people looking for a 500 size are targeting it and i think that is affecting the X4 sales dramatically. Plus it does cost almost the same as a X5, so i think most people just decide to go with that. They should have made it an honest 450 size for a cheaper price. I think the NX4 is having the same issues. But even farther adding to the launch failure of the NX4 is the fact that Nitro guys are not typically beginners. In the current days, where electronic heli are all the rage. I feel gaui wasted money and time that they could have been using to produce their already popular X5 and X7 kits and parts and keep them on shelves for a change. This would be profit for them also, and a much better guarantee on one too. But since the nitro guys are typically already "experienced". One would have to assume they probably end up wanting bigger than a 500 size. I suppose small nitro heli could be desirable to a small market. But it seems like as the majority of people progress they end up with bigger and bigger.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 08:03 PM
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i think any one thats been in the hobby know to look at the blade sizes not the name of the model
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
... the T-rex 500 but nitro which i dont see selling well there was a nitro conversion kit for the T-rex 500 and it didnt sell at all
flight times wernt any better and it had less power
Sorry but your info is incorrect. I was one of the two who designed the conversion kit for the T-500 to nitro. We sold about 100 kits and stopped. It has insane power for 6 to 7 minutes of flight. The conversion kit is currently being produce by another.

Tim Jones flew the proto-type and a video can be found on you tube.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chopper62 View Post
Sorry but your info is incorrect. I was one of the two who designed the conversion kit for the T-500 to nitro. We sold about 100 kits and stopped. It has insane power for 6 to 7 minutes of flight. The conversion kit is currently being produce by another.

Tim Jones flew the proto-type and a video can be found on you tube.
Why was the project stopped? Is it just that it wasn't popular enough? Or possibly that it was just more beneficial to let a 3rd party produce the conversion kits for the market that wants them?

Is the power to mass ratio that much higher on a nitro compared to a electric? I get 6-7 minutes on my X5 with a 4000 mAh pack. I think a 500 would get a little longer because it should be lighter? But still at least the same, if it could fit a 4000 mAh. What would a tank of nitro cost approx. in USD? It seems like nitro is just constant maintenance, tuning and cleaning. Is it worth all the mess and everything cost wise? If the power to mass ratio is better and the rotor keeps torque though the whole fight. I might be going nitro too one day. But i suspect as the motor heats, performance drops?
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by chopper62 View Post
Sorry but your info is incorrect. I was one of the two who designed the conversion kit for the T-500 to nitro. We sold about 100 kits and stopped. It has insane power for 6 to 7 minutes of flight. The conversion kit is currently being produce by another.

Tim Jones flew the proto-type and a video can be found on you tube.
every one that i have talked to about it says the same thing .30s just dont make power like the bigger engines and flight times where short maybe 4 min

power to weight is FAR in favor of e power on a 500 its not even funny the kit never sold well they had trouble moving them

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Why was the project stopped? Is it just that it wasn't popular enough? Or possibly that it was just more beneficial to let a 3rd party produce the conversion kits for the market that wants them?

Is the power to mass ratio that much higher on a nitro compared to a electric? I get 6-7 minutes on my X5 with a 4000 mAh pack. I think a 500 would get a little longer because it should be lighter? But still at least the same, if it could fit a 4000 mAh. What would a tank of nitro cost approx. in USD? It seems like nitro is just constant maintenance, tuning and cleaning. Is it worth all the mess and everything cost wise? If the power to mass ratio is better and the rotor keeps torque though the whole fight. I might be going nitro too one day. But i suspect as the motor heats, performance drops?
torque HP and both MUCH better with electric then nitro and .30s are pretty bad to start with they just arnt developed like the bigger engines are
Epower is lighter higher HP and FAR FAR more torque
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 12:58 PM
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Just loved the "I was told" but yet am an expert on the issue.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chopper62 View Post
Just loved the "I was told" but yet am an expert on the issue.
care to prove me wrong?
i mean real proof im sorry but the 500 size nitros are crap
a .30 cant get any NEAR the power of a brushless motor
hell the bigger nitros are having to get even bigger to keep up with e power
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