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Old Dec 04, 2012, 01:55 AM
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3-d 500 choices ?

I do about 95% sport flying, but would eventually like to transition into 3-D for a small percentage, there are sooo many choices. I want something that can take a bad crash, reliable, good parts availability, rtf with everything included in the 500 to 600 size that wont break the bank. I have looked at the razer by dynam, Hausler, clone of t-rex, Gaui x5. I dont need the best as I am sure it wont be for long. For the money what can I get that is a good deal?
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Out of those the best choice is the gaui x5, but it is also bigger than the other 500's. but x5 comes with great electronics compared to both.
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=439715

Now I would say the dynam is probably the worst for 3d flight. A trex 500 built right would be much better but I would look at tarot or copterx. Also the hausler and dynam are flybared and the x5 is flybarless which are you wanting.

Now if you want a budget 500 a clone isn't really the best choice. A 3d capable clone and one that will fly decent will cost as much as a trex 500e combo, but its flybared and it doesn't have all of the bling as a pro.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...n-Fiber-Blades

For flybarless the cheapest would be to build a clone as the trex 500 elf is
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...Gyro-CF-Blades

A budget would be good help. Because the x5 is a $1000 high grade and the dynam and hausler or $300-$400 very low grade 500s.

Here's a lot better clone setup than a hausler
Copterx 500 flybarless $130
3x ds515m cyclic servos $120
Savox sh-1250mg tail servo $60
Robird g31 flybarless gyro (beastx clone) $90
Turnigy typhoon 500h $32
Hobbywing platinum pro 80a $65
Total= ~$500
That would be a pretty good flying heli for a decent price. Now it could be cheaper by going with a little cheaper electronics or by buying used. In the end it's really up to you
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 01:08 PM
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Atom 500 is the best deal in a 500 ever.

and you can turn it in to a 550 later for cheap
all up your looking at 1100 to 1200 with good electronics if you already have a radio and charger
if not your looking at more in the range of 1500 to 2000 depending on radio and charging setup
an icharger 206b at LEAST is needed for large 6S packs to get any decent charge times
radios DX6i, DX7, DX7s, DX8 or any of the new budget Futaba radios
Savox servos micro beast controller
and a few lipos

need to know budget and what gear you already have
buy in is high but your getting a lot for it and the big investments wont need to be replaced any time soon

Compass by far has the cheapest parts cost the Gaui is nice but parts are few
and i advise NOT getting a clone in this size or bigger to many things to go wrong
oh and Compass helis are flying TANKS with the cheap parts costs makes them the cheapest helis to own
clones may be cheap up frontbut your going to be paying Align parts prices
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 04:29 PM
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How will this fly in wind and how easy will it be to control compared to the Gaui- x 5. Will this set up be difficult to build and balance compared to an out of box rtf model. I am an engineer but a build from scratch may be more of a challenge. Will it be able to hover in 5-7 mph wind without a great deal of effort?
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 05:47 PM
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A 500 can easily handle wind and especially the bigger gaui x5. The only rtf that could possibly fly out of the box would be the blade 500 3d. It's over priced IMO. There's also the walkera v500d01 that's rtf. But really no rtf is ready to just charge a battery an fly out of the box. All helis should be check over thourghly before flying. A machine or person that built the model could easily have missed loctite on the Jesus bolt or even something as small as a set screw that holds the tail rotor together. A 500 heli can be very dangerous. A 425mm carbon fiber blade flying from a heli spinning at 2400+rpm...thank of the damage just because a little loctite was missing.

The only true rtf you could buy would be a used heli built and flown by someone trust worthy on a forum, even then it's iffy.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHOPPER GUY View Post
How will this fly in wind and how easy will it be to control compared to the Gaui- x 5. Will this set up be difficult to build and balance compared to an out of box rtf model. I am an engineer but a build from scratch may be more of a challenge. Will it be able to hover in 5-7 mph wind without a great deal of effort?
they will fly the same since they are both in nearly the same class and are flybarless

5 to 10 mph winds are not an issue i have flown my T-rex 500 and Compass 6HV in winds as high as 30mph you can do it at that speed but its not fun any more

Compass helis other then the Warp 360 are ARF frames and head come built but you should ALWAYS check for thread lock
build is VERY VERY easy and there are videos on it over on helifreak for free

the X5 is actully a bigger class heli in the 550 class range along with the logo 500 and T-rex 550 and swing bigger blades
the Atom 500, Logo 400, and T-rex 500 are all about the same size and swing 425mm blades

the Atom and the Logo can be upgraded to a 550 with just a tail boom kit
but the Atom is more crash friendly and has much much cheaper parts

http://www.nankinhobby.com/product-p/atom500fbl.htm
this kit is what i would get looks like the carry the new iKon FBL with self leveling if your really worried too
but give Nankin a call ask to talk to Mike he will hook you up with a supercombo with every thing you need for a great price
another great thing with Compass is the store support and online support from other pilots is better then any other heli
Nankin has been great to me on parts support Compass had an issue with a bad batch of plastic that made the skid struts brittle
Nankin replaced mine no questions FOR FREE not even shipping
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:36 AM
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I fly an X5 and its the ONLY heli i own right now that i don't regret buying. Thats all i can say. As far as air frame engineering, it's top class. Easy, simple airframe design makes it easy to build, easy to repair and it's lighter than almost any 500 class helicopter weighing in (with telemetry modules installed) at just under 6 lbs. About 5 lb. 12oz to be exact, with a very big Turnigy 4000 mAh pack installed. I think that is pretty light for this size. As far as electronics go, it comes with very nice equipment. Either package is nice! The BeastX kit is the one i got. But the Vbar kit is even nicer since it has the Vbar and brushless servos. But it costs more too. The main problem with Gaui is they don't have production powers like other bigger companies have. So parts and kits get released in waves and the stores are out of stock often. High demand, low output, i suppose. But lucky for me i have not needed to repair it yet. But now that the NX4 has been released, hopefully they will get back into parts production and release another wave of kits and parts soon. I know i've seen a few places with them in stock, including on Ebay.

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Old Dec 05, 2012, 11:30 AM
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550 not 500 5lbs is HEAVY for a 500 Atom is lighter for sure
thats almost as heavy as my 600 which comes in just over 3kg
but then the 6HV is a super super light 600 its more a over sized 550 lol

and i know my T-rex 500 is lighter it just over the parkflyer limit

again the X5 is a 550 class heli same class as the T-rex 550 and Logo 500
the Atom in the same class as the T-rex 500, Logo 400, and Protos
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 02:21 PM
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My T Rex 500EFL Pro is 4.3lbs RTF with battery. A 600 EFL Pro is about 8-8.5lbs on 12 cells, so I would say 5lbs is a little on the porky side for a 500 class heli.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:09 PM
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This is my favorite 500 to fly 3d. Decent price, Very reliable.

http://www.flying-hobby.com/shop/tre...on-p-7951.html


Also the protos 500. Its light, quiet, And one mean machine.

http://helidirect.com/msh-protos-500...es-p-22453.hdx
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
550 not 500 5lbs is HEAVY for a 500 Atom is lighter for sure
thats almost as heavy as my 600 which comes in just over 3kg
but then the 6HV is a super super light 600 its more a over sized 550 lol

and i know my T-rex 500 is lighter it just over the parkflyer limit

again the X5 is a 550 class heli same class as the T-rex 550 and Logo 500
the Atom in the same class as the T-rex 500, Logo 400, and Protos
The AMA park pilot weight is only 2 lb, i think? I'm not buying that story. I think 5lb. 12oz is pretty damn good considering i have a battery installed that probably weighs 2 lbs by it's self. I think this should be considered, i thought i had mentioned that? I could get a more expensive pack that weighs less and is probably the same mAh. But, Whatever 753g comes out to in lb., anyway. Thats my pack weight. Yep, it's a big and heavy pack but it flies for 6-7 minutes. Plus i have a telemetry module and some sensors installed too, whatever that adds. Not too much i suppose. 30g or something.

But if we are being technical. The X5 is NOT a 550 or a 500. It's right in the middle between a 500 and 550. It swings 500 or 520mm blades, 530mm MAX if you want to really push extra load on the motor, even though it can handle it. I think the 520mm is the better size, just my opinion. I guess if your talking "class" sizes you would round it up to the 550 "class". But it does not use 550 blades, they are too big. It might be capable but the tail is not long enough, i don't think, and performance would likely be hindered with longer, heavier blades putting higher load for the motor to swing. I'm pretty sure this attribute alone is why some consider the X5 to perform better than the 550. At least thats the only reason i could see why some people went and sold their 550 to get an X5. The combined extra weight and motor load from longer blades probably makes the heli "feel" heavier in the air, providing slightly less pitch authority. But otherwise I think your right. I suppose it would be considered a 550 class heli. Even though it technically falls just short in actual blade size and heli size too, i think. But still the X5 is almost as big as the 600e, looking at the following picture. It's just an odd ball size/shape heli compared to the "standard" which I'm pretty sure Align set forth and basically continues to dictate.




Funny side note though. If Align set the standard in electronic helis. Why is the 450 called the Trex 450? It swings 325mm blades. I suppose Trex 325 just didn't sound cool enough, right? There is some degree of marketing involved i think. Also, I'm unsure. Does the Align 500 swing 500mm blades? Or something odd ball like 435mm or 475mm or something like that? I think i've seen Align blades in those sizes. Thats the only reason i ask.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayted View Post
My T Rex 500EFL Pro is 4.3lbs RTF with battery. A 600 EFL Pro is about 8-8.5lbs on 12 cells, so I would say 5lbs is a little on the porky side for a 500 class heli.
Yeah, i suppose if the X5 was an honest 500 it would be a little heavy, like i said above, it's not a 500 though. It just falls in a funny size, really. 4.5 lb is about what i expected the 500 to weigh, especially if it had my pack in it. I just ran my pack weight though conversion from g to lb. My pack weighs just hardly under 1.7 lb. I figure this is probably one of the biggest packs this heli can accept, since it hardly fits under the canopy. I just realized though, based on what you just said, that when i was comparing the X5 to an Align in consideration of which to buy. I determined that the 600E was the Align competition, if i were to buy an Align instead of the Gaui. So some of my reference to weights and things was confused by this, since the 600 is obviously a 600 and much heavier. Anyway, Since the 550 was actually about the same size but swings bigger, heavier blades, but still using a 6S pack, and comes in around 6.2 lb in AUW with a typical pack installed. It probably would weigh even more with my pack on it, if it would even fit. So looking at all this, for me it was either a 600E or the X5. All the other options and brands quickly flew out the window as i started compiling stats and user accounts. The Logo 500 was another consideration. But i decided since a LHS near me carried Gaui parts this is the better option. Plus not many of my already in use vendors sold logo stuff. Besides, i didn't care for the idea of a plastic frame. Even though they come in very lite because of it. I don't want to do that rebuild, EVER. Full frame swaps are a nightmare i have! lol. Hopefully they switch out easier than I'm thinking they do though.


Anyway, i have no interest in arguing over these points. I am simply putting my information out there. If i'm wrong, PM me or just let me know. The X5 is nice, so is every other heli mentioned here so far. I have nothing to say bad about any of them. Well most of them Except based on statistics alone, my opinion is to completely skip the Align based 550 size. Get a 500 or jump to a 600. Thats my opinion. But for my money, the Gaui X5 airframe is the only one worth it between 500 and 600 size. The only thing nicer that i have put my hands on personally is a SAB 700, which makes me pretty damn sure the SAB 630 and 500 are going to be just as nice, but much more expensive than the X5 or X7 or any of these others

One last caveat! Whatever you buy. Be it a clone, or anything else. Just make sure the electronic components are top notch.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejavu*Xion View Post
This is my favorite 500 to fly 3d. Decent price, Very reliable.

http://www.flying-hobby.com/shop/tre...on-p-7951.html


Also the protos 500. Its light, quiet, And one mean machine.

http://helidirect.com/msh-protos-500...es-p-22453.hdx
I'm only halfway being sarcastic when i say this, but i'm being 3/4 serious too...


PEOPLE STILL BUY FLYBAR HELICOPTERS?!?!?

I could never justify it for 3D in 2012, thats all. Why repair extra things in a crash when you don't have to? Plus, don't they flip like a tank or Mack truck compared to a FBL? I've never flown a flybar and i never will own one, that much i can promise. I think MSH has a aftermarket FBL head available though. They did just recently release their FBL gyro though. So maybe a new FBL heli is on it's way soon?
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:57 PM
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the 5.5 kit for the Atom 500 lets it run the same blades as the X5 and much lighter which is Compass' gimmick and its still cheaper over all if you REALLY want to run 500mm to 520mm
which again is in the 550 class

the t-rex 500 swings 425mm blades same as the Protos and Logo 400
the number here has do with motor size of older brushed motors
the 450 is again about motor size not blade size
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
the 5.5 kit for the Atom 500 lets it run the same blades as the X5 and much lighter which is Compass' gimmick and its still cheaper over all if you REALLY want to run 500mm to 520mm
which again is in the 550 class

the t-rex 500 swings 425mm blades same as the Protos and Logo 400
the number here has do with motor size of older brushed motors
the 450 is again about motor size not blade size
Can you elaborate a little? I've never seen a brushed motor implemented in anything above a micro, at least not in a heli worth keeping. Since the majority of sizes match up with their blade size, for the most part. At least above 500, that seems to be the case. I had always figured electric sizes were based on blade size. How were the brushed motors labeled and rated that landed them at this number? More importantly, what did the number represent? Seems low for KV unless 450s used to run higher voltages? Was it weight or something?


After seeing the reliability and performance of a good heli. I'm not worried about crash repair costs as much as i was when i bought my X5. Crash costs are the only thing that prevented me from getting a 600+ size heli. Since blades and so many other parts cost quite a bit more on a 700+ size. I thought it was out of the question. But now i know that with good electronics. The crashes should always be MY FAULT. So i hopefully won't be crashing much anymore at this point. So a 700 is back on the table. Not for nothing, but the ones i'm looking at now are the 7HV and of course the X7. But the new Goblin 770 is looking pretty tempting. If only i could afford ANY of them at this point.

Also here is a interesting paragraph from the Compass web site:
Quote:
The WARP 360 was designed to be the most innovative 350mm class helicopter and is designed for the most hardcore 3D flying. The WARP Will be powered stock by a 6s setup; with its two stage belt drive, the WARP will be able to handle however much power you want to throw at it. Using the Compass original head design, the Warp will have a completely rigid head for the most aggressive and accurate flying.
I also take this to reference the main rotor blade length? This would make it just slightly above a 450 size? I suppose there probably is no actual "standard" for labeling. At least thats my take. I think each brand just does whatever they want, like a phone company or something.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:10 AM
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it goes WAAAY back to the first E powered helis be for lipos and brushed motors
what you know as a 450 was really a 400 size motor class Align came up with 450 as a makerting tool same with the 500 it ran the same blades as older 500 brushed motor size helis

the idea of a 550 class is farly new and old at the same time it was known as the .30 size class way back when
just like 600s are the same as a .50 or .60 size, 700 is the same as .90 etc
its a pretty big mess

but the Warp is a 450 class heli
the X5 is a 550 class if on the smaller end the Atom 5.5 runs the same blades but is about the smallest 550 out since its the same heli as the Atom 500 which is the same size as an Align 500 just longer boom and blades
the 6HV will running 600 to 620 blades is about the same size as a X5 just again longer boom

so if we go by blade size only

Warp, Trex 450, Blade 400/450, Mini Protos
Trex500, Logo 400, Protos, Atom 500
Trex550, X5, Atom 5.5, Logo 500, Goblin 500
6HV, Trex600, Logo 600, Goblin 600
Trex700, X7, 7HV, Goblin 700, Logo 600SE, Logo 700
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