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Old Dec 02, 2012, 11:00 PM
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Cessna 182 As First Trainer ?

I have a nephew that wants flying lessons next summer, which will probably be in a Cessna 150/172 , now I am seeing a few RC Scale Cessna-182's for sale.

Would an RC Cessna-182 make a good FIRST trainer ?
And if so, which brands are better than others ?
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 11:30 PM
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So many different Cessna 182s out there.

As a general rule, these Cessnas do not possess the most important quality you need in a first trainer....positive stability. I haven't seen a Cessna 182 that will self-stabilize, meaning right itself if the student gets into trouble, like banks too steeply and goes into a spiral.

Cessna 182 models do not have sufficient dihedral to self-stabilize.

As well, most Cessna 182s are designed/manufactured with clear windows. Looks pretty but not as rugged as a solid foam fuselage. Repairing a fuselage after a crash can be difficult, especially the wing mounts.

The only totally foam fuselage in Cessna 182s that I have seen lately are the Skyartec Cessna 182. The latest version of which comes with 3G3X gyro-stabilization. This means that if the student gets into trouble, the gyro system will self-stabilize the plane. The 3G3X works something like electronic dihedral

I have this Skyartec Cessna but have not been able to test due to the almost non-stop rain we've been having here in the Pacific Northwest.

Or he can just go with the old stand-bys, the Hobbyzone SuperCub or Champ.

Having said that, tell your nephew to log some hours, 30 or more, on a decent flight simulator. Actually the free downloadable FMS should be good enough. You do need a dummy transmitter interface. There is a Skyartec Flight Simulator that comes with a dummy transmitter that you connect to your PC's USB. Download the free FMS program or load it with the included CD. Some "real" transmitters can be connected to your PC, as well.

This sim time will teach him orientation (knowing which way to push the stick when the plane is flying away or toward the pilot), not to overcontrol and not to freeze and a bunch of other skills. Sim time will definitely save him a few crashes. When he can take off and land safely on the sim, he should be able to survive his first flights without much or hopefully without any, damage.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 02:54 PM
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I have a Flyzone Cessna 182 Select, it is really fun to fly but as easyrider said it is not a good first time trainer. the motor mount and nose wheel won't take much at all. I started with the Hobbyzone super cub and it wasen't long at all before I could fly the cessna. Knowing what I know now and if I had to do it over again I would buy the Skytech Cessna.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 07:05 PM
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The short answer is no.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 07:46 PM
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Depends on the Cessna and the instructor pilot. I have been flying my "OLD" version one Cessna and at 1/2 throttle it would make a nice trainer. It just cruise's around and is easy to fly. If the Instructor is good, it would not be a problem. If he is going to try it on his own, not so good.

This is a newer version of the one I have.

http://www.nitroplanes.com/60a-dy893...w-rtf-24g.html

it will depend a lot on the instructor, how well they fly.


Buzz.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 08:05 PM
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Not even in the real world would you start on a 182.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 05:41 PM
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Really, a 182 is hard to fly? I guess what is considered a trainer has changed over the years. I had to build mine out of balsa, ply then cover it, it is was even glow powered.

Here is a video of my brother in laws first landing. This was his second day flying RC. A little sim time and flight number 9 he is doing touch and goes. This plane flies well. It is easy to fly, does not have a bad stall, and as you can see lands easy enough.

Just my humble opinion.


Buzz.


Jim's Filght (0 min 30 sec)
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 10:08 AM
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There are exceptions, and your brother may be one of them. That being said, NO, my Flyzone Cessna 182 Skylane is definately not a beginner airplane. She must be finessed to a good landing or else the nose gear is toast; the prop and spinner are prone to damage in a less than good landing too. Getting used to using flaps on her is also not for the newbie. Try something else, like a Hobbyzone Super Cub or an Ares Gamma 370. Those are good highwing trainers that almost anyone should be able to fly.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blvdbuzzard View Post
Really, a 182 is hard to fly? I guess what is considered a trainer has changed over the years. I had to build mine out of balsa, ply then cover it, it is was even glow powered.
Here is a video of my brother in laws first landing. This was his second day flying RC. A little sim time and flight number 9 he is doing touch and goes. This plane flies well. It is easy to fly, does not have a bad stall, and as you can see lands easy enough.
Just my humble opinion.
Buzz.
Quote:
Depends on the Cessna and the instructor pilot. I have been flying my "OLD" version one Cessna and at 1/2 throttle it would make a nice trainer. It just cruise's around and is easy to fly. If the Instructor is good, it would not be a problem. If he is going to try it on his own, not so good.
This is a newer version of the one I have.
http://www.nitroplanes.com/60a-dy893...w-rtf-24g.html
it will depend a lot on the instructor, how well they fly.
You hit two out of three factors that affect a student's learning curve: Instructor's ability and the right "Cessna" (or the right trainer model).

Chucksolo got the third element: the skill/aptitude of the student pilot.

Combine all three elements in the right proportions, you got a successful rc student.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 04:04 PM
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Thanks so far and keep those suggestions coming.
( I am leaning away from Cessna and leaning towards HZ Super Cub )
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 05:14 PM
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Good choice.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:08 PM
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No he is in NO WAY an exception. He is heavy thumbed and over corrects like a demon. Of all the people I have taught how to fly, I would put him in the 40% range. By the flight you see here, he was calming down and letting the plane fly.

I did teach a guy to fly with his Goldberg Super Chipmunk. I used dual rates and he was better then the average student. He soloed in 8 Saturdays. Yet the Chipmunk is a easy to fly, with one bad habit of nosing over on landing. Throw the flaps and it lands slower then a high wing trainer.

I used my Goldberg Cub as a trainer. I have heard people complain about tip stalls and 25 years of flying mine, I still have no idea what they are talking about. It hangs on the wings in a 5 mph breeze. Students liked it because it looked like a plane and was big and easy to see.

This Cessna is larger then fly zone. The FZ Cessna was never a trainer. This one is pretty tough. It has since been cart wheeled, landing inverted, patched, glued and is still flying.

This Cessna is no trainer. It was hard for me to fly. After it was upgraded with a brushless setup it was not to bad. But it was still no trainer.

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...-airplane.html



If this is to much then go with something like this.

I am not saying the webs site are good, I posted for visual references. I will recommend Tower though.

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...ghz-radio.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=18083

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=18916

http://www.bananahobby.com/easy-trai...5360-prd1.html

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBVCW&P=0

http://www.nitroplanes.com/02a-401-s...e-rtf-24g.html


Buzz.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:47 AM
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Well, I thought you were praising your brother for being a natural pilot. Guess I was wrong. I agree with your choices, with one exception, the AXN Floater Jet, a.k.a., Clouds Fly. This plane really isn't a beginner plane either, despite the pusher type configuration. The plane is pretty fast and has a nasty tendancy to dive at full throttle, which must be compensated with generous amount of elevator. A newbie would probably crash the thing at first launch since most of them would try hand launching it at full throttle. Big mistake, it will nose dive into the ground. I launch mine at just a little less than half throttle. At high elevation, and when adding full throttle, the plane will dive immediately. Once you give it full elevator at full throttle, the plane will climb almost vertically like a rocket. Better leave this one off the "beginner" list.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 03:13 PM
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blvdb,

Your brother may not be a natural, but that was more than compensated for by a natural instructor. Not sucking up or anything, just saying.

Excellent instructor, lousy student = good pilot

Excellent instructor, excellent student = Outstanding pilot

lousy instructor, lousy student = washout
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 06:39 PM
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Thanks easy.

"lousy instructor, lousy student = washout " I have watched this in horror. Student had 3 left thumbs and the instructor had no patience or ability to remain calm. It was not a pretty sight. Club Pres. came over and took over the training. After almost a year he was able to solo. A lot of us would land when we saw him get ready. He had trouble with keeping track of all that goes on. I think he went through an entire maple Forrest in props.

I was a guest at another club. I was listening to the lead instructor telling the student to put more down trim in it so he could "LEARN" how to fly while holding up elevator. Not sure why he was doing that. When I would start the approaches with a new student I would put a few clicks of down trim to help them from stalling as it got closer and slower. But it was not very much. This poor guy was flying, or trying to fly while holding almost 1/3 up elevator?

After my brother in law was beyond the " watch every move he makes" stage, I would watch out for other planes. I was looking one way and he was flying the other, I hear he say HELP!!! Well he was inverted heading away from the runway, I look up and dont see the plane. He is yelling over there, over there!!!!! Well I find it in time to give full down to miss the the only tree for 10 miles. He had another plane fly in the same general area and lost his plane for the other one. We both had a good laugh about that.

Hands down the hardest person I have ever taught was a retired airline Pilot. He came in with the attitude " I know how to fly" After crashing 2 PT 60's he said he thought it would be a good idea to try an instructor. Still took a lot to get him to realize he was not in the plane any more. He would loose orientation and then he could not get it back.

But back to subject here.

Not sure of the room you have to fly in. If it is at a club or you are going to the local field. I have used a TT 60 to teach more then I care to remember. Super good trainer. Only down fall is the self stickum shelf paper covering. It needs a couple coats of Luster coat clear before you assemble it.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCAS1&P=0

I have flown it with a 60, 70fs, 45, 65, engines mounted to it. It would be a super easy E power conversion.

Battery
http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-25c-5500-6s1p.html

Motor
http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m606-big...030-400kv.html

ESC.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e06-proton-60a.html

I used this setup in my glider tug. Yanks the plane off the ground.

Dru's Glider Launcher (2 min 34 sec)


So, there are so many trainer type planes out there now. Just because it is not "E" powered, they are easy to make that way. You could go to the TT40 or even find one of the PT 20 kits and build that.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJ555&P=7

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/alpha_450...33204_prd1.htm

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...-rtf-2-4g.html


Way back when I built a Goldberg Falcon 56 with an O.S. Fp.35 engine controlled with a Kraft 4 channel radio. No servo reversing, only switch was on and off. That was a giant step up from my Galloping Ghost escapement I was using. So I see all of the foam planes out there now and just shake my had and say, WOW. So much fun for so little time building.


You can get so over loaded with information that it makes it hard to pick one and go with it. No matter what plane you pick, you will have people tell you that you should have gotten something else.

I may have missed it. Did you want a ready to fly package with every thing or did you want something else? You can put a good package together, radio, plane, motor, battery, ESC, battery charger for a lot less then we could 10 years ago.


Buzz.
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