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Old Jan 10, 2013, 10:58 AM
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Joined Dec 2012
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Thanks for the tip re digital servos, Rusty Nail. If I keep learning things like that here I may avoid buying the wrong stuff yet!

I did not understand how that power lever is supposed to work, but that's OK. I just want to put the boat back like it was, which was fine with me!
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 11:32 AM
Still showing up for breakfast
lilleyen's Avatar
Ontario Canada
Joined Mar 2009
1,100 Posts
Magnetic switch

Tom Ray, this would be a good opportunity to replace your switch with a magnetic switch that has no connection with the outside of your boat, hence no leaks.
You still need the new switch harness though.

What I did was to cut the red wire from the switch, and connect that to the magnetic off on switch, and cut the black common wire and just solder the two ends together, sealed with waterproof heat-shrink tubing.
The switch has a "normally open" and a "normally closed" and a "common" post.

You connect the red wire ends to the "normally open" and the the common screws.
If you connect it the other way, then you would have to leave the "big ugly" magnet on the boat to have the receiver be on.
Aside from being ugly, if the magnet got displaced while sailing your receiver would switch off, not good.

The magnet used to turn the switch off and on, is held onto the deck with a little piece of white Velcro, where it switches the receiver to "off".
To turn it on I remove the ("big ugly") magnet and put it safely in my pocket.
(Not near your credit cards, you might demagnetize your swipe stripe)

When I need to turn the receiver off again, I simply stick the magnet back onto the deck.
The switch cost me $3.95 at my local Sayal electronic shop, (Radio shack would have them too).
It is simply the little magnetic switch that goes at the top of a door, to activate an alarm system, dead simple.
You could easily mount the wired switch to the underside for the deck, right underneath the location you choose for the above deck portion.
Then you can seal up the old switch hole with epoxy glue or white silicone or whatever you choose. No more leaks from that puppy!

I have used this system on my Nirvana for a few years and works great.
I haven't done this mod to my Fairwind yet as it's brand new, and the waterproof switch on it is doing the job for now.
I probably will eventually.

Here is the link to the Nirvana forum where you can see pictures of how I did this.
It was pretty crowded in the Nirvana doing this, but the Fairwind has scads of room.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...agnet&page=407

BTW, as to your question about fastening your servos, I prefer to have those screwed in place somehow, since you don't want them moving around due to servo/sail torque etc.
If your radio box disintegrated, do what a lot of the Fairwind guys do and simply epoxy some wood cross beams into the hull at the appropriate place and hang the servos from them, and screw them into the beams so they are not touching the bottom of the hull in case water gets in.
Secure everything else in the same way or Velcro the other parts to the underside of the deck up out of harms way.
Especially the receiver.

Best to keep the heavy things like batteries, as low as possible, even right in the keel opening if possible.
Stick the batteries into a balloon or a zip lock baggie, and seal the opening.
These should come out for air sometimes, to be sure moisture is not collecting inside.
The balloon is just for flood insurance.

For my receivers, switches, battery boxes etc., I prefer to Velcro those in place with self adhesive Velcro strips (Like I used for the magnet)
That way you can remove them or move them around as needed.
Never been a big fan of double side tape in there.

On my Fairwind I replaced the hatch sealing foam with a closed cell, 1/8" x 1/4" white weatherstripping tape, self adhesive.
Hasn't gotten wet yet, so I can't guarantee it works, but it should.
Look back a few posts.
I also added a battery meter to both the Nirvana and the Fairwind. (Nirvana radio box picture below)
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:39 PM
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Australia, TAS, Penguin
Joined Mar 2012
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@TomRay

Good detective work on the servos!

An analog servo should be fine, no need for digital IMHO...

Rudder servo - there should be a number of servos that would do the job that are of similar size. It is likely that your current rudder servo arm will not fit the spline of the new servo, but all the new servos I have bought come with a selection of arms - one of these would connect to the rudder link no drama I am sure....

Sail servo - more complex here.... if you are to continue with an arm servo, then you will need a servo that is not only the correct size, but also one with enough torque to do the job. I had hoped a Fairwind owner might jump in here and recommend a particular servo.

I believe your Fairwind is a 900mm boat? With a boat this size, it is not unusual to use a drum type sailwinch instead as it takes a pretty good arm servo to haul the sails in under heavy load. The boats I have of this size all use drum winches... Moving to a drum winch may need a rethink in how the sheets connect to the winch - there are a number of methods used.... the best is the continuous loop method.

In the short term you could perhaps continue with your old sail servo if it will work....

Lets wait and see if a Seawind owner can recommend something....
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 07:32 PM
Boomer1
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United States, CA, Temecula
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The Fairwind is a 36" boat and there are a number of fine servos that will handle the Fairwind's needs.
Kysoho uses Futaba servos typically private labeled with their own logo and part number to encourage parts sales I would guess.

To try to convert a Fairwind to a drum style would in my view be a waste of time and effort. The Kyosho part number is PERFLEX KS 103BK but it is a Futaba servo under the label has has a Futaba servo arm that comes with the boat. A call to Kyosho might yield the spec's for this servo> not sure.

The best servo ever made in my opinion is the Futaba S3801 they were specified as the sail servo by Kyosho for their Seawinds and by Tamiya for their Yamaha RTW and others - here are the spec's for that servo - don't try to find one as they are extinct but the closer you can get to the spec's the better - my opinion.
S 3801 = Analog
3.77 oz(107.0 g) 2.32×1.14×1.97 in Size
(58.9×29.0×50.0 mm) 4.8V: 156.0 oz-in (11.2 kg-cm)
6.0V:194.0 oz-in (14.0 kg-cm) 4.8V:0.30 sec/60°
6.0V:0.26 sec/60° 3-pole

There are several terrific resources for finding data on servos. Here is one I use on a regular bases: http://www.servodatabase.com/servos/futaba?page=4

You can cross reference using the charts at the link I provided or you can contact servo city and they can help you pick a good servo for the boat.

I have to go to meeting so time is short. I can post a few possibles for you a bit later.

Boomer
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:44 PM
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lilleyen's Avatar
Ontario Canada
Joined Mar 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1 View Post
The Fairwind is a 36" boat and there are a number of fine servos that will handle the Fairwind's needs.
Kysoho uses Futaba servos typically private labeled with their own logo and part number to encourage parts sales I would guess.

To try to convert a Fairwind to a drum style would in my view be a waste of time and effort. The Kyosho part number is PERFLEX KS 103BK but it is a Futaba servo under the label has has a Futaba servo arm that comes with the boat. A call to Kyosho might yield the spec's for this servo> not sure.

The best servo ever made in my opinion is the Futaba S3801 they were specified as the sail servo by Kyosho for their Seawinds and by Tamiya for their Yamaha RTW and others - here are the spec's for that servo - don't try to find one as they are extinct but the closer you can get to the spec's the better - my opinion.
Analog
3.77 oz(107.0 g) 2.32×1.14×1.97 in Size
(58.9×29.0×50.0 mm) 4.8V: 156.0 oz-in (11.2 kg-cm)
6.0V:194.0 oz-in (14.0 kg-cm) 4.8V:0.30 sec/60°
6.0V:0.26 sec/60° 3-pole

There are several terrific resources for finding data on servos. Here is one I use on a regular bases: http://www.servodatabase.com/servos/futaba?page=4

You can cross reference using the charts at the link I provided or you can contact servo city and they can help you pick a good servo for the boat.

I have to go to meeting so time is short. I can post a few possibles for you a bit later.

Boomer
I believe the s3802 is the newest version of that servo, much more powerful
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:26 PM
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How in the world did anyone figure this stuff out before there were Internet forums?

You all are very helpful in my project.

I had seen a magnetic battery switch on one of the RC sites and wondered how those worked. I like the idea of turning the boat on and off without any moving parts sticking through the deck. I doubt I will do a neat job of patching the old hole, but it will not leak.

The platform that holds the servos, batteries and receiver up out of the bilge survived my disassembly process and I came away impressed with how well it is bonded to the hull. As I mentioned, I thought I might crack the hull pulling the rudder servo free of the sticky tape. I think I will reuse it, but I do like the idea of putting the battery weight lower. You have all been too polite to comment on it, but yes, I really did wire a few fishing sinkers around the rudder post. I kept stuffing the bow when running wing on wing in strong winds!

When I get the new electronics installed, I look forward to hearing tuning tips and speed tricks. I want to get one or two more boats to race with friends on my pond. I even thought up a great new rule to add entertainment value: each racer gets a tennis ball and can throw it once per race, hitting no boats. This will put Libby the dog "in play" in a more or less predictable way. Should add an amusing element of chaos to racing!

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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:38 PM
Boomer1
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United States, CA, Temecula
Joined Sep 2009
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Here are the specs for the S 3802 - sadly it is not a direct replacement for the #S3801 The jumbo is the S 5301 @ 6.0V: 292.0 oz-in (21.0 kg-cm) sadly it to is almost impossible to find!
Check out the two Hitec servos - they have some serious torque! HS-5745MG and the HS-765HB posted some pictures and the specs just for fun. The HS 5745 MG is pretty darn close and should do the job. The 765 would be ok too.


S3801 = 6.0V:194.0 oz-in
S3802 =Torque (6.0V): 153 oz/in. (11kg.cm)

Specs for S3802
Control System: +Pulse Width Control 1520usec Neutral
Required Pulse: 3-5 Volt Peak to Peak Square Wave
Operating Voltage: 4.8-6.0 Volts
Operating Temperature Range: -20 to +60 Degree C
Operating Speed (4.8V): 0.70sec/140 degrees at no load
Operating Speed (6.0V): 0.56sec/140 degrees at no load
Stall Torque (4.8V): 122 oz/in. (8.8kg.cm)
Stall Torque (6.0V): 153 oz/in. (11kg.cm)
Bearing Type: Dual Ball Bearing
Gear Type: 3 Nylon Gears, 1 Metal Output Gear
Connector Wire Length: 12"
Dimensions: 1.8" x .9"x 1.7" (46 x 23 x 43mm)
Weight: 2.6oz. (73g)
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:44 PM
Boomer1
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The only issue I have with a magnetic switch is the ones I have seen are really large and unsightly and detract from the appearance of the boat. I am sure there are switches used in industry that might be Mirco size and better suited to this application.
Just sayin...................
Boomer
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:46 AM
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@TomRay:

I think the sail servo question is answered?
(Thanks Boomer1 & lilliyen)

Re fishing sinkers on the rudder etc:
Burying the bow (like a submarine) when running with the wind is sometimes referred to as pitchpoling. Can be quite spectacular, with the rudder waving in the breeze....(grin). Caused by too much pressure on the sails, especially the top of the sails, overcoming the buoyancy of the front end of the hull... Once the bow goes under a bit you get a bit of water over the foredeck that drags her down a bit more and woohoo.....

If you get this problem, one way is to adjust your rig - try leaning the top of the mast forward an inch or two by lengthening the backstay and shortening the forestay / jib halyard. This will spill some of the wind out of the top of the sail, reducing drive. In lighter conditions, return the mast to vertical or thereabouts to get your power back....

Another way is to avoid sailing directly downwind, but instead sail a bit off the wind (a broad reach) - can help if wind is variable....
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 10:39 AM
Boomer1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpenguin View Post
@TomRay:

Re fishing sinkers on the rudder etc:
Burying the bow (like a submarine) when running with the wind is sometimes referred to as pitchpoling. Can be quite spectacular, with the rudder waving in the breeze....(grin). Caused by too much pressure on the sails, especially the top of the sails, overcoming the buoyancy of the front end of the hull... Once the bow goes under a bit you get a bit of water over the foredeck that drags her down a bit more and woohoo.....

If you get this problem, one way is to adjust your rig - try leaning the top of the mast forward an inch or two by lengthening the backstay and shortening the forestay / jib halyard. This will spill some of the wind out of the top of the sail, reducing drive. In lighter conditions, return the mast to vertical or thereabouts to get your power back....

Another way is to avoid sailing directly downwind, but instead sail a bit off the wind (a broad reach) - can help if wind is variable....

Pitch Poling happens to just about all of us at some point. It can be great fun and is always a "crowd pleaser" when it happens. I collected some fun pictures of just a few "PP" caught on camera by some of our fellow forum members.

A point to made is the more water tight you make your boat the less likely there will be any electrical damages from your boat acting like a submarine. Have the rigging set up correctly and everything on the boat being installed properly will minimize any damages.

It is fun and exciting when it happens, and as it was pointed out, most of the time is avoidable and can be controlled by good skippering. Fun nonetheless.

As you can see, it happens to almost any kind of boat too! Some boats do better than others, but honestly, it is pretty much in the hands of skipper.

Enjoy
Boomer
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 01:52 PM
Kimo
United States, HI, Honolulu
Joined Jun 2011
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Talking about pitch poling Will Lesh has a picture and video of a T50 doing a wheelie in the owner pictures on Tippecanoe web site. Its something to see a boat with its stern burried in the water and its bow several inches in the air.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hircsailor View Post
Talking about pitch poling Will Lesh has a picture and video of a T50 doing a wheelie in the owner pictures on Tippecanoe web site. Its something to see a boat with its stern burried in the water and its bow several inches in the air.
Try turning rapidly into the wind while heeled well over and travelling fast - bow will come out most times....
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 07:13 PM
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Hah! I have made my Fairwind do almost what is shown in the pic captioned "ouch" above.

Although I'm clueless about building models, I have owned and sailed many sailboats over the years. Right now the fleet includes a Com-Pac Sun Cat, a pair of Hobie Adventure Islands, and a Klepper foldable kayak with sail kit. So you can use regular sailing terms without much risk of confusing me.

Boomer, thanks for your research on the sail servo question!

On to the rudder servo... I assume there are a lot more of them suited for that application since it does not require as much power. The old one was stuck in there on its side with tape. I did not enjoy removing it. My question is: was it on its side for some reason? Seems to me it could push and pull on that rod leading back to the rudder from an upright position and it would be easier to build it some kind of box to sit in upright than on its side. Am I missing something? Is it normal to see them on their side in these boats?
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 10:49 PM
Boomer1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ray View Post
On to the rudder servo... I assume there are a lot more of them suited for that application since it does not require as much power. The old one was stuck in there on its side with tape. I did not enjoy removing it. My question is: was it on its side for some reason? Seems to me it could push and pull on that rod leading back to the rudder from an upright position and it would be easier to build it some kind of box to sit in upright than on its side. Am I missing something? Is it normal to see them on their side in these boats?
Tom
The servo is just a small motor and in most cases doesn't care if it sits up right or if it is mounted on it's side or even upside down. The geometry is what makes the difference. The rotation of the spline/gear has to be adequate to move the servo arm the required distances in either direction to move the sails in and out to achieve the maximum and minimum sail movement. Servo arms and rudder horns often have multiple holes in them to use as adjustment points to permit fine tuning of that movement. The arm can be positioned in many ways on the servo's spline to get the right amount of travel in and out as well.

When setting up your servos, it is a good practice to have them set in such a way as to not have the servo be held in a fully open or closed position - fully locked a servos will consume much more electricity - which results in shorter battery life and can cause unnecessary wear on the servo it's self.

A full featured radio can really be an asset to set up end points and a few other niffy little tricks that can improve your boats performance.

Hope this is of some value.
Boomer
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:53 AM
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I'm almost ready to place an order for new electronics for my Fairwind, but have a few more questions.

The HiTec HS-765HB was recommended by Boomer in a post above, but Hobby King doesn't have it. I found it at Tower Hobbies among other places, but the price was $39.99.

I poked around on Hobby King and found they have one that seems OK, unless I'm missing something.

The HK15328A analog servo has 12.8 kg-cm, more than the one it is replacing, and costs $6.89.

Will that one work for me?

Like most of the items I saw on their site, it is not in the USA warehouse, only an international one.

My experience with international shipping is limited. Will this be slow and/or expensive?

For the rudder servo, I'm looking at the HK15138 Standard Analog Servo from Hobby King. Seems close in specs to the original and costs $3.25.

For the TX/RX combo, I'm looking at the Hobby King 2.4 Ghz 6 channel mode 2 one. The only reason I can see for me not to go with the 4 channel version is that it is back ordered and the 6 channel is only a couple of dollars more and is in stock.

I'm sold on the Turnigy LSD 6 volt boat battery pack, which is 7.49 from Hobby King. It's another one that is in an international warehouse.

I'm also going with the switch one of you recommended, shown here:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...em_Switch.html
Also in an international warehouse.

And the Turnigy AA LSD transmitter batteries, also international.

And the Turnigy Accucel-6 charger, also international. I see that it comes with a harness with a variety of connectors, but how do you connect it to charge the AA transmitter batteries? Is there a plug for that on the transmitter or what?

I mostly want to charge from a house outlet, so I'll get the 12 volt Hobbyking 105W 15V/7A Switching DC Power Supply recommended upthread.

My main questions here are whether I am missing anything critical or buying something that won't work, and whether the international shipping will be slow and/or expensive?
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