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Old Dec 05, 2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Dieffenbach View Post
Hey Scott, the more the marrier. I assume FPV would be allowed and that we could downlink the FPV transmission to a flatscreen for the crowd, like Treggon and I have done at Float Flys. Maybe Treggon would bring his trailer with the setup. I have to figure out if I'm going though.
I talked to Aaron Lichtenwalner who is the CD of the event and he said he'd get back to me. I was thinking about bringing a flat screen but fly FPV via 3rd person if they won't allow 1st person. It at least gives the crowd an idea of what it looks like.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by p51p51 View Post
Can I use the E-Fest logo on my site as a link to the info? I know you always say yes but I always ask. Thanks Mike
Sure!

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Originally Posted by Otto Dieffenbach View Post
Will FPV be allowed?
Stand by on that, we are looking into it and discussing... We have never had FPV at any AEF in the past, we do need to look into logistics as well as safety concerns considering the volume of people that will be attending this event. Thanks for your patience.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:26 PM
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Stand by on that, we are looking into it and discussing... We have never had FPV at any AEF in the past, we do need to look into logistics as well as safety concerns considering the volume of people that will be attending this event. Thanks for your patience.
Hey Jim. I know when I attended AEF about 3 years ago they had demos going on. Maybe we can do a quick FPV demo including some of the features. As long as there is a spotter and we're flying within 550 we should be pretty safe. I wouldn't mind doing a small workshop and include some of the equipment I use for those interested.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:32 PM
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Just keep in mind that any FPV system operating on 2.4GHz will wipe out 1/4 of the available 2.4GHz band. This means that if four FPV systems were operating, each on one of the four available frequencies, no 2.4GHz systems would operate, they would remain fully locked out until one of the frequencies was available. 2.4GHz FPV systems are potentially very dangerous for 2.4GHz radio systems.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:32 PM
Burt KF7ULM
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Originally Posted by Jim Varley View Post
Stand by on that, we are looking into it and discussing... We have never had FPV at any AEF in the past, we do need to look into logistics as well as safety concerns considering the volume of people that will be attending this event. Thanks for your patience.
Jim
As someone that fly’s FPV, it would be nice to see other peoples setup, and know who is flying FPV. I do however believe that it would have to be 3 person flying like Scott was talking about. It would allow the spectators another view of the whole electric flying experience. It would also help me firm up my plans, I thinking about blowing it off this year. Flying 3rd person the pilot would be in control of the aircraft, as any of your other flyers, but would be transmitting the video back for people in the stands, or walking by to see. Also the person with the Ham license is there close by. I know when I setup at the field I fly at, I always get questions on how it works from flyers that never saw it before.

Scott
What day were you going to be there?, also are you using any LRS?
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:36 PM
Burt KF7ULM
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Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
Just keep in mind that any FPV system operating on 2.4GHz will wipe out 1/4 of the available 2.4GHz band. This means that if four FPV systems were operating, each on one of the four available frequencies, no 2.4GHz systems would operate, they would remain fully locked out until one of the frequencies was available. 2.4GHz FPV systems are potentially very dangerous for 2.4GHz radio systems.
Jim
I think Scott is on 900 Mhz, I fly 1280Mhz with a filter to help not effect 2.4. I use a 400 Mhz system for control.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:41 PM
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This means that if four FPV systems were operating, each on one of the four available frequencies, no 2.4GHz systems would operate
Jim. We've done FPV Fly-In's here in San Diego. People using 2.4ghz control isn't the only ones affected. Any 2.4ghz controllers that are flipped on within close proximity of a 2.4ghz video can cause adverse affects. Usually the FPV'ers do a good job coordinating frequencies with each other and other pilots. I know Otto and I operate on 900mhz, where a few others in the area operate on 5.8ghz. Most of the FPV'ers also understand the impact and limitation of 2.4ghz. Thus is why most of them started using other frequencies.

I for one utilize 2.4ghz control and 900mhz video, soon to be 5.8ghz. As long as it's understood ahead of time which frequencies we can use on site and who is using what frequencies.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:42 PM
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Scott, What day were you going to be there?, also are you using any LRS?
I'm using standard 2.4ghz control since I fly pretty close. I'm then flying 900mhz but should have my 5.8ghz setup ready by the time AEF rolls around. I know Otto is the only other guy that I've met in the SD area that's on 900mhz so he and I usually coordinate. I was hoping to get there Friday and Saturday. If not then Saturday for sure as I need to get back to SD on Sunday.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:18 AM
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Fpv

I have several planes setup for FPV. Linking down the video for the crowd has the same safety isses as a normal RC flight, at least on 900 MHz. First Person introduces a few more single point failure issues and from a hazard standpoint they are analogous to servo or receiver failure in a regular RC plane. As long as standard flightline safety operations are followed, the added risk is to the plane. A spotter can mitigate this risk to some degree. Flying FPV you have a better vantage point on flight boundaries and the flightline. FPV will overtake regular RC within 5 years. It is easier to fly and to learn; no orientation issues.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 12:10 PM
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FPV flyers

To all who posted about FPV. This will be discussed at our next meeting. Keep the information comeing, as this is new to AEF. Let us know what your plan is. Aaron, CD AEF 2013.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 05:37 PM
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FPV thoughts

We are still feeling our way with FPV but I suggest you designate an area for FPV planes in the pits. To date, coordinating frequency use for the downlink has been between the flyers. I have not seen issues with the 2.4 FPV links causing problems with other flight contol systems but have seen 2.4 control systems effect the 2.4 FPV links. My links are all on 900Mhz and I always test fly a new area for interference issues (by doing an airplane ride for a spectator). 1.2 and 5.8 have had no issues that I've witnessed. I would suggest that only one or two of your pilot stations be identified for standard flight and optional FPV operation.

As long as standard flight line and flight area procedures are followed, FPV is no more hazardous than standard RC flight. As mentioned in an earlier post, there are a few more single point failures possible but these risks are to the plane.

We have gotten into the habit of giving airplane rides to spectators by flying the plane visually and having riders wear the goggles. Also, we have computer screens that allow many to observe a flight. Since the transmitter signal is available to all you can setup as many receivers as you want with TV or computer screens. I have recently explored FPV aerobatics and formation flying. These are very interesting to observers and formation flying is much easier FPV than flying visually. Setting up limbo poles or pylon flying is also interesting. Flying between posts or trees is quite easy FPV.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 07:45 PM
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Videos of FPV Aerobatics and Formation

FPV areobatics flown today. Similar to processed camera video but real time. Flying between objects is easy and interesting.

Home Depot FPV Dart with #16 Keychain Camera Video at SEFSD by Otto Dieffenbach (3 min 2 sec)


Follow the leader flying. Really fun for the spectator. The FPV from the ground looks very close to the leader and is fun to watch. Airborne video capture is easily done and video clips of various aircraft at AEF can become the signature for the event.

FPV RC Mega Minor Chasing a T-28 and a Wing by Otto Dieffenbach (4 min 22 sec)


Video taken from an FPV Quad of my Supergirl, Witch and Superman. We have a couple good FPV quad flyers with HD cameras.

ottos super people & a witch (3 min 51 sec)
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 09:42 PM
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Otto,
Real nice, will you be bringing any of your plans.
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 03:47 AM
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Otto,
Real nice, will you be bringing any of your plans.
Trying to figure out what AEF is all about. Never been and can go many different ways with planes. I'm a little disappointed there isn't a one day entry and am also trying to pick up a boat in Tucson. Also need a decission on FPV. Lots of balls in the air at the moment. What planes do you want me to bring, if I attend?
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 01:56 PM
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Otto:

From past experience, Friday is the best day to fly. Saturday is a zoo, lots of apectators (snowbirds), long lines to fly, boring and extra long "so called" noon time demos from sponsors, raffle in the afternoon. Generally lots of people in the pitts, airplanes everywhere, everyone trying not to trip over themselvs or damage airplanes.

Having said all that I have a particular interest in FPV but from a spectator standpoint I can't see how you could do it at the AEF. I would not count on them approving it, the AEF is on government property with lots of restrictions.

Off topic:

I would love to see you do this FPV in person, do you have any events at your home field?

Al Gutkin
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