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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:33 PM
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Another Data Point on Economic Recovery

Besides Consumer Confidence up, Optimism up for the next four years, Home Prices up, and now GDP revised up 2.7% for Q3, Conservatives will not admit the economy is in recovery. . Of course, there's no mention on Foxnews.com on the 2.7% revised data point. Fair and unbiased indeed. So laughable. At least other Newscorp holdings have the balls to admit it.

The bottom line is Conservs need a poor economy for their political purposes and positioning. And they need Benghazi to get Kerry nominated as Sec of State to open a Senate Seat for contention. It's really sad. And they need the fiscal cliff debacle to lower GDP in Q4 for their political purposes on the economy.

Of course, I expect all the points above to be refuted as "Lies!" and "manipulation of data!"

Just a friendly reminder, if we go over the fiscal cliff, Americans will blame republicans. Google is your friend
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:38 PM
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Democrats oppose any immediate spending cuts while demanding that we immediately raise taxes. They won't even cut SS and Medicare spending on the rich. Which is all that Republicans are proposing to change in those programs at this time.

Current revenue for federal, state, and local governments is a combined $5 trillion per year. Somehow that is not enough. Our government demands more.
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Last edited by AustinG; Nov 29, 2012 at 01:38 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:39 PM
Radix malorum est cupiditas
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Going over the fiscal Cliff = letting the Bush tax cuts expire (mostly as far as the voters care)

i.e. the Democrats are selling themselves on the basis that THEY are the ones to save the country from harm by extending the Bush tax cuts.

Republicans are to be blamed if the Bush tax cuts expire.

my,my, what a strange world we live in
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:40 PM
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Why did you create this thread after replying to a thread that had the identical subject?
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
Why did you create this thread after replying to a thread that had the identical subject?
Because it warrants its own discussion.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinG View Post
Democrats oppose any immediate spending cuts while demanding that we immediately raise taxes. They won't even cut SS and Medicare spending on the rich. Which is all that Republicans are proposing to change in those programs at this time.

Current revenue for federal, state, and local governments is a combined $5 trillion per year. Somehow that is not enough. Our government demands more.
Do you know the first proposal from O and the Senate on this issue? Hint: it's not to raise taxes.

Obama and Democrats are pushing hard for House Republicans to immediately pass a Senate bill that would prevent most of the automatic tax increases that would result from the expiration of Bush-era tax cuts at the end of the year.

"At the same time, they want to discuss a framework for substantive negotiations in the new Congress that would include tax reform, spending cuts and reforms of popular entitlement programs such as Medicare and Medicaid."

And this is what's holding up Repubs and why America will blame Repubs:

Republicans led by Boehner oppose letting tax rates on the wealthiest 2% of Americans go up by passing the Senate bill championed by Obama. They also want Democrats to make firm commitments on spending cuts and entitlement reforms now, instead of waiting for negotiations next year."

To be sure, I think Dems should make firm commitments on spending cuts now. I think both sides need to give a little.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk View Post
Because it warrants its own discussion.
It was its own discussion.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:49 PM
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It was its own discussion.
the other thread was about consumer confidence. I had one post in there about economic recovery and how you refuse to admit it. This thread is about yet another data point on economic recovery (GDP up) and I have no problem including the sub plot of Conservative Refusal to admit it
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk View Post
Do you know the first proposal from O and the Senate on this issue? Hint: it's not to raise taxes.
That claim is contrary to every story I have read. Here is one example:

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mone...-earners-go-up


I would love to see anything where Democrats put actual spending cuts on the table though so please link if you have one. All I have seen is generic claims on spending cuts in future years(which is absurd because future Congress's and President's are under no obligation to stick to those cuts).

In regards to the 2.7% GDP increase. One of the primary factors given for it was increased government spending. Well that has been done on increased debt. It is fools gold to count that as any kind of real economic recovery since at some point GDP has to be decreased to pay for it.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinG View Post
That claim is contrary to every story I have read. Here is one example:

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mone...-earners-go-up


I would love to see anything where Democrats put actual spending cuts on the table though so please link if you have one. All I have seen is generic claims on spending cuts in future years(which is absurd because future Congress's and President's are under no obligation to stick to those cuts).

In regards to the 2.7% GDP increase. One of the primary factors given for it was increased government spending. Well that has been done on increased debt. It is fools gold to count that as any kind of real economic recovery since at some point GDP has to be decreased to pay for it.
Never mind the strong exports that also made up the number. If Repubs want to go over the fiscal cliff because we aren't ready to commit to specific cuts now before extending tax cuts for the middle class, then as was said in another thread: YOU OWN IT.

PS...i seem to remember this strategy played out by Big R of not getting to specifics of what's on the table to be cut until he was in office. Repubs were okay with it then. Oh yes, indeed they were. But not now.

That said, that was one of the issues I had with Romney. And unlike conservatives and repubs, I don't have a double standard. I think Dems need to throw a bone and commit to a few cuts now to get this thing moving.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Ok, so here is the deal, as I see it from my little corner of the world. I became an adult/working ( after the Army), during the Reagan years. Had it made,doing good financially. Then came Clinton, after him things seemed to slide for me. Then came Bush, things got a little better in my world. Now, the false housing thing started by Clinton blew up, and things havent been good for a good while now. Along came Obama,promising the moon,Hope and Change, and all that baloney. Two years of Democrat majority, no budget, stimulus,and Obamacare,blame,etc. Business is terrible, paychecks low,week after week. he gets reelected to "continue" what he started. I am terribly sorry, but NO amount of statistics anyone posts on here are gonna make me think things are "better", until I feel it, and see it with my own eyes!!!!
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk View Post
Do you know the first proposal from O and the Senate on this issue? Hint: it's not to raise taxes.

Obama and Democrats are pushing hard for House Republicans to immediately pass a Senate bill that would prevent most of the automatic tax increases that would result from the expiration of Bush-era tax cuts at the end of the year.
.
According to left wing economic think tank, The Brookings Institute, raising taxes on those "rich" Americans will raise government revenue by $60 billion. We have a deficit that is in excess of $1,100 billion. Do you honestly believe that that is seriously addressing the problem?
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:58 PM
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. Do you honestly believe that that is seriously addressing the problem?
No. There's not enough rich people to tax to fix this. I can easily agree to that. But this is about immediately extending the middle class tax cuts before 2012 is out. Repubs won't agree unless hard cuts are agreed to first.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk View Post
No. There's not enough rich people to tax to fix this. I can easily agree to that. But it's not a reason for House GOP to refuse passing the tax cuts for the middle class before 2012 is out.
So, we should "fix" 10% before we try to fix the 90%? That's not good allocation of effort.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 02:02 PM
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So, we should "fix" 10% before we try to fix the 90%? That's not good allocation of effort.
the debate is to extend the bush era tax cuts for the middle class with debate on cuts in future spending after the new year. Repubs are opposing it. You own the cliff.

Note: i also said Dems should throw a bone and agree to at least one thing specific now
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