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Old Dec 07, 2012, 10:06 AM
Happy FPV flyer
Kilrah's Avatar
United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Joined Sep 2006
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Uh? In what exactly is HK slapping their Turnigy label on OEM equipment any different?
And manufacuting/selling something someone else has designed like here?

They do make a couple of original products, but most of them are just rebranded too.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 10:26 AM
No JR tx here!
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Eastern ND
Joined Sep 2009
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Originally Posted by npre View Post
open source under GPL means the code is free in every sense of the word. free as in speech, or libre, which means anyone can use, redistribute, sell, or modify the code for any purpose. also free as in beer, or gratis, which means nobody is required to pay for the source code, ever. hobbyking is not required to pay, and you are not required to pay. this is the essence of the GPL.
Not quite correct. GPL = free, as in speech. But not free as in beer. It *can* be free as in beer, but isn't required by the GPL. GPL allows you to charge whatever you want to deliver the software, just as long as the complete source code is given along with the binary. For example, Hobbyking could modify the code (or not even modify the code), then turn around and sell the new binary and source code for $100. This is allowed under the GPL. However, any purchaser then could turn around and distribute the source code freely (without cost) to others, all allowable under the GPL. This is allowed because there are always costs involved with distributing software, such as disk storage, bandwidth costs, etc. Since any purchaser can choose to distribute the binary/source code for free, without cost, to others, then in that sense Hobbyking isn't selling the software for $100, but is selling the ability to use their systems to obtain the code. The reason why almost all GPL software doesn't have a cost is because distribution costs today are so negligible.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by JRFlyerFPV View Post
Not quite correct. GPL = free, as in speech. But not free as in beer. It *can* be free as in beer, but isn't required by the GPL. GPL allows you to charge whatever you want to deliver the software, just as long as the complete source code is given along with the binary. For example, Hobbyking could modify the code (or not even modify the code), then turn around and sell the new binary and source code for $100. This is allowed under the GPL. However, any purchaser then could turn around and distribute the source code freely (without cost) to others, all allowable under the GPL. This is allowed because there are always costs involved with distributing software, such as disk storage, bandwidth costs, etc. Since any purchaser can choose to distribute the binary/source code for free, without cost, to others, then in that sense Hobbyking isn't selling the software for $100, but is selling the ability to use their systems to obtain the code. The reason why almost all GPL software doesn't have a cost is because distribution costs today are so negligible.
yes, totally true and an important clarification, the source only needs to be released to people who have bought the product, however like you said users can distribute on the own. and also like you said, i've never come across a project that does that due to numerous free hosting services like github, sourceforge and google code, and because most free software projects want to make sure as many people as possible have access to source code.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilrah View Post
Uh? In what exactly is HK slapping their Turnigy label on OEM equipment any different?
And manufacuting/selling something someone else has designed like here?

They do make a couple of original products, but most of them are just rebranded too.
Compare HK prices, you will see why.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 11:47 AM
Never trust laughing dolphins
Joined Feb 2011
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Originally Posted by DJO View Post
Sounds good! So about 10 miles max. Yeah I knew that about RF range but still trying to remember how it all works LOL

Dan
I'd say that is pretty optimistic. I think 5 miles can be guaranteed, anything over that will be pure bonus. But we'll see. Perhaps its a lot better.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 12:41 PM
throw new IOPilotException();
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Ireland, County Dublin, Dublin
Joined Feb 2005
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Definitely not with those antennas.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by IceWind View Post
@msev, so tell us what did you do? Have you been naughty?
Nah, they made some sort of a mistake ,...They thanked me for my patience ...Sorry guys for the off-topic

Icewind what about your code, is it ready for the public to see :P
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 05:17 PM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
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HK does seem to be willing to pay royalties if they are due. Look at the KK boards and you'll find that line: "*Royalties paid on each unit sold to Rolf, the original KK Designer."

So if there's any problem with the code or design, I'm sure the author can come with an agrement with HK.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 02:29 PM
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Hey guys so I saw the earlier posts about the 2 cable choices and im still curious which is the best deal on a good / easy to use programming cable for this module, I've found a 3rd on top.

1) there's this one first recommended, what's there not to like about this programming unit? comes with the cable and is it already plug/n/play or is that the wrong pings on the cable or is it Not the 3.3v unit and needs to be hacked up / fixed? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...occessors.html

2) then theres the ebay recommended cable USB 2.0 to UART TTL 6PIN Connector Module Serial Converter CP2102, very cheap but honestly how do I know which pins goes where to make the cable using the supplies pins/wires ?? I will be using this on a Turnigy 9x version 2. http://www.ebay.com/itm/190685792376

3) 3rdly, I found this cable myself but even though it says " It says "FTDI Adapter USB" it also says 5V right next to it so I am not sure if this will work or not? And it as well does not have the included pins / wires as the ebay / or 1st link does. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...roller_5V.html

4) Are there any other recommended cables for this thing, and a reason if there is one why it's any better?
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Last edited by paradoxstyle; Dec 11, 2012 at 10:33 PM. Reason: links were missing?? thought I included em... hmm
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:01 PM
kha
openLRSng haxor
Finland, Espoo
Joined Mar 2011
2,008 Posts
There is two different things here.

1) AVR ICSP programmer
This is used to flash the complete AVR chip including the bootloader. Also used when you dont have bootloader on the chip to use up more flash.
One initially needs this to load bootloader to the cpu to be able to use option 2 later.
Most common AVR ICSP programmer is USBASP.
The programming connector normally is a 2x3 or 2x5 header.
To program turnigy 9x with e.g. er9x or open9x you use this.

2) FTDI / CP2102 etc...
This is a usb connected serial port with TTL levels. You can only program chips which have bootloader on them with this. The bootloader is normally entered by sending a bunch of !:s to the serial right after reset. This makes the bootloader to listen serialport for flashing requests.
The connector is normally a single row of 4 to 6 pins.
OpenLRS comes preloaded with Arduino bootloader so it can be programmed with this. You will also need this to communicate with the olrs module when using some firmwares or wanna use the spectrum analyser feature.
These normally do I/O at 3v3 and some provide both 5v and 3v3 power from USB (at least the cp2102 ones I have are such).

You likely want to have both around.

USBASP can be found with less than 4usd on ebay including shipping.

USB serial adapters (e.g. cp2102) can be found for under 3usd (inc. Shipping).
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kha View Post
There is two different things here.

1) AVR ICSP programmer
This is used to flash the complete AVR chip including the bootloader. Also used when you dont have bootloader on the chip to use up more flash.
One initially needs this to load bootloader to the cpu to be able to use option 2 later.
Most common AVR ICSP programmer is USBASP.
The programming connector normally is a 2x3 or 2x5 header.
To program turnigy 9x with e.g. er9x or open9x you use this.

2) FTDI / CP2102 etc...
This is a usb connected serial port with TTL levels. You can only program chips which have bootloader on them with this. The bootloader is normally entered by sending a bunch of !:s to the serial right after reset. This makes the bootloader to listen serialport for flashing requests.
The connector is normally a single row of 4 to 6 pins.
OpenLRS comes preloaded with Arduino bootloader so it can be programmed with this. You will also need this to communicate with the olrs module when using some firmwares or wanna use the spectrum analyser feature.
These normally do I/O at 3v3 and some provide both 5v and 3v3 power from USB (at least the cp2102 ones I have are such).

You likely want to have both around.

USBASP can be found with less than 4usd on ebay including shipping.

USB serial adapters (e.g. cp2102) can be found for under 3usd (inc. Shipping).

since I havnt received the unit yet how do I know which pins go where on both the ebay board and on the other end where I am assumming it connects directly to the "OrangeRx Open LRS 433MHz TX Module" ?

In the even it programs through the Tx mini usb cable (is that possbile?) would somehting like this unit work? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...USB_Cable.html curious what it's for, doesn't mention much in the description other then it has to do with Arduino as well.

I would guess it most likely requires taking the back plate off the back of the module, potentially removing the board from the module casing and then connecting it, but I'll let you confirm for me if you can, thanks.

and reading up more about flashing it to er9x, is it needed to flash the firm ware on the 9x to work with this uhf module or can we just use the stock / original firm / original 9x radio with this module. I am assuming if so, then you probably can flash the UHF module on a stock 9x radio / stock form as well. Have I got this right?
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 01:05 AM
fly by night
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Joined Sep 2011
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You do not need to change the transmitter at all to run the module - it only shares power and ppm signal. You should go to Er9x just because it is badass firmware, though. And learning how to flash the 9x will help you learn about flashing various flying electronics like the OpenLRS or custom flight controllers, even though it is a different process for the Open LRS.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 01:54 AM
kha
openLRSng haxor
Finland, Espoo
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxstyle View Post
since I havnt received the unit yet how do I know which pins go where on both the ebay board and on the other end where I am assumming it connects directly to the "OrangeRx Open LRS 433MHz TX Module" ?
Seemingly the orangerx UHF has connectors to both of these programmers but you only need to use the straight row of 6 pins. To flash the tx module you seemingly need to open the case to access the connector.

As I dont have them yet cant be fully sure but as it is clone of openLRS I would guess the pin order matches that. Thus I can draw up a picture on how to wire it upto those cp2102 adapters ( you can make the cable from the wires coming with the cp2102 by glueing/taping the single connector housings together). A 'sparkfun 3v3 ftdi' will fit directly.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 03:13 AM
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Joined Dec 2007
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Very intresting stuff. The fact it's arduino based makes it easy to modify.

There are means to increase range. One is the antenna. Unluckily the dimensions at this frequency are quite big, but replacing the stock thing with a proper GP or dipole (32cm overall length) should do wonders. The coiled up mini antenna on the HK-TX product doesent cut it.

The other way to increase range is the data rate. Cutting the data rate in half equals doubling the tx-power. (The minimum of the rfm22b seems to be 123 bps?)

I have not analized the code or protocol, but i think it is 4800 baud. Going to 1200baud or even 300baud would be challenging, intresting and new.
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Last edited by Cesco; Dec 13, 2012 at 03:32 AM.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 03:38 AM
kha
openLRSng haxor
Finland, Espoo
Joined Mar 2011
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I think openLRS defaults to 38400. ThUndeadMod dropped it to 4800 and that is quite low already. On my code I use the same and with 11 byte payload I can send them at around 50ms intervals (20 frames per second) to leave little gap for hopping.

Going lower is certainly possible but will drop the frame rate even more.
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