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Old Nov 26, 2012, 03:15 PM
Feeling FrSky
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Le Fishray: what happens when you cross a Le Fish with a Stingray

What would happen if you crossed a Le Fish with a Stingray? Hmmmm.....

Stingray:


+

Le Fish:


=

Le Fishray





As people following the posts on the VTPR and Slope Aerobatics Facebook Group (and/or the thread on BaroneRosso) have known for a while, two talented Italians, Romano Lodde and Alessandro Deflorian, have been working on this new design for some time.

Romano created the design in Google Sketchup so that it can be produced via CNC hotwire. Alessandro has built the first prototype. It is made from EPP and intended for ultralight aerobatics aka ultrabatics. I think it has a lot of potential!

The first prototype has just had its first test glides and should fly very soon. It's certainly a beautiful looking plane! I can't wait to see it on video I don't know for sure if kits are planned, but, I hope so, because I want one

I will be following the development of the project via the Le Fishray tag on SlopeAerobatics

Steve
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Last edited by surfimp; Feb 21, 2013 at 06:57 PM. Reason: added English instructions by MattyB
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 04:20 PM
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That is, indeed, a very lovely design! More foam Ferrari than Maserati/Lambo. Looks perfect for the next step up in airspeed from Le Fish.

Ken
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 06:38 PM
Fun ain't cheap!
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Now I'm likin' this mucho. Way to go Red Baron! The profiles match up nicely, and you can see the differences on his website.
I'm a huge fan of the performance of the Fish series, but the looks have always supported the function, more than my aesthetic wants to support (you know I am all about lookin' good, more than actually being good, right Steve?) Additionally I also think the sandwich body is something worth exploring, so I may be buying some sheet depron, and firing up my hot wire set up to try to scratch out something similar just to bang around Elwood with you crazies. My Guppy is fun in higher lift at the Ruins, but it's a lead balloon at sea level around here.

Thanks for sharing!!
Andy
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 06:45 PM
cheapskate extroardinairé
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snewk View Post
That is, indeed, a very lovely design! More foam Ferrari than Maserati/Lambo. Looks perfect for the next step up in airspeed from Le Fish.

Ken
hmm, a step up in airspeed would be more lambo, a step up in maneuverability would be more ferrari, and maseratis just suck in general =P
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:54 PM
Impatience is a virtue
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Joined Nov 2008
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Looks great! Perhaps the longer nose will aid in building light, e.g. less nose weight?

I'd be curious to hear from those that fly this style - how do you think the design changes will impact VTPR (or whatever the current achronym is) performance. In reading all of the previous Le Fish, Flow, etc. posts it seems that small changes can have big impacts to performance.

In any case, it sure looks cool!
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 08:09 PM
Feeling FrSky
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The ultralight (sub 20oz) Le Fish already requires very little to no noseweight if built as described in the How to Build a Swiss Fish thread. So I'm not sure how much (if any) weight will be saved by the longer nose on Le Fishray, assuming similar construction materials and methods.

That said.. as I understand it, the goal here is to make a plane that is easy to build, flies light, and looks good. The wing is higher aspect ratio, which in theory should mean less drag. The fuselage is a little less tall, which may also reduce drag (although the wetted area may be similar). In theory, these attributes may make it faster than a similar weight Le Fish, although they may also sacrifice light lift "floatiness" and knife edge capability.... or maybe not.

There are a lot of variables and a good pilot will learn to get the most out of any airframe, so, absent flying two planes of same/similar weight, built to the same standard, in the same conditions, it's really hard to say.

Even a weight difference of 3-4oz will really influence the perceived speed of the plane... the heavier plane will seem faster, but it will also not hang in the air the same way. It's all about compromises and finding the airframe that best suits your flying style and typical conditions... this is why we need lots of acro planes!!

The main point is that the Le Fishray looks cool and will almost certainly fly very well. It's extremely cool to see people moving forward with their own experiments. It is through this process - and through sharing what we learn - that all the planes get better

Steve
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 08:15 PM
Feeling FrSky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droydx View Post
(you know I am all about lookin' good, more than actually being good, right Steve?)
I think they had you at "Italian" my friend

It's going to be a great plane. With any luck there will be at least one coming over this way... I really want to check it out!

Steve
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:30 PM
FSD
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What a beautiful sloper. Any idea on how the full throw elevator is handled?

PLA
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 04:05 AM
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Hi

It's me, Romano! (read like 'It's me, Mario' from the popular video game for the best effect)

First of all, I'll whish to tank Steve and all the ultrabatics community for inventing this type of planes and flying style, and to everybody that keeps it in the 'experiments welcome' mood that I love so much.

By the way, let's talk about Le Fishray... the wing planform is altered in order to:
- increase the roll ratio, since we made it bigger we need to compensate somehow to avoid being very dull in this aspect
- have more surface near the wing root, where the airfoil is more lifty.
- help wing structure since more surface will be near to the fuselage
- gain something in Reynolds number terms: the root chord is 270mm

In general, Le Fishray is intended to be LESS extreme than Le Fish, we tried to adjust the compromise and gain something in penetration (that's why we have sharpened wingtips as well... and of course they look 'stingraysh') and efficiency in light lift. I hope it will come out with a slightly increased speed and penetration, and more inclined for smooth frestyle rather than extreme ultrabatics (I've posted a Traceur video some time ago that explains the idea).

We are loving the sandwich concept. Now that we are building the other prototypes it just makes easy to place reinforcement ribbon spars and carve space for the electronics. The battery for example slides in all the way to the nose keeping the hatch back, thus giving uncompromised strenght in the nose. We also have removable wings with 'telescopic' spar system that seems to work well for now. It keeps the wings while flying and allows collapsing during crashes, dissipating part of the energy. That comes from the Traceur V1 kit I have.

There's a lot of discussion and brainstorming going on for the tail control system. We have own ideas and maybe the prototypes will use different solutions. The first one has a bowden with servo in the nose, the tail was been made removable but it didn't work very well. Also, the servos I picked up (Corona 929HV) are sloppy and that doesnt' help. One prototype is now being built by Adrea Giavarini who is a very good skiled powered-3D pilot and we'll see He's following the manual (yes, there is a manual! that wasn't available when Alessandro built the first) and suggesting some tweakings.

We are not interested in pulley systems now, I guess that we will go for different iteractions of the classic pull pull principle.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 04:51 AM
I'd rather be out sloping...
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Hey Steve, now that's nice!!!
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 08:24 AM
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[QUOTE=GentlemanRider;23374130]Hi


"In general, Le Fishray is intended to be LESS extreme than Le Fish, we tried to adjust the compromise and gain something in penetration (that's why we have sharpened wingtips as well... and of course they look 'stingraysh') and efficiency in light lift. I hope it will come out with a slightly increased speed and penetration, and more inclined for smooth frestyle rather than extreme ultrabatics."


Very impressive stuff, Romano, and pretty much what my initial thoughts were upon seeing the prototype. The internal technology is, IMO, going to have a big impact on future design and construction for a lot of builders.

Ken
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 04:06 PM
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Second protoype finished. I've used a pull pull system using helicopter uniballs and 2mm carbon rods instead of wires. Seems to work well and does't weight a lot: the rods + uniballs are 4g, the steel joiners 4g but are in the middle of the model. AUW is 570gr unbalanced, but isn't far away.

We're having very cold days with north wind, and the preferred ultrabatics slope is the wrong side
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 04:44 PM
Feeling FrSky
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Looks great! I thInk that will be a fun and very versatile weight. I am really looking forward to flight reports and video

Steve
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 06:01 PM
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That is one sexy fish. I like!

Dawson
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 06:00 PM
Feeling FrSky
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Le Fishray Flies!



Le Fishray flies!

Maidened Le Fishray today in the subtle breeze, let's say 3 to 6 mph, almost "Alulas only" conditions. Flew indefinitely, not much ultrabatic action (thus no video yet, sorry) but it floats better than expected and I can figure out a huge number of useful days next year
- Romano Sparrow Lodde on the VTPR and Slope Aerobatics Facebook Group

Super awesome! I think it looks even better in the air than it does on the ground. I can't wait to see one flying in some nice lift.

Steve
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