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Old Nov 22, 2012, 06:08 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
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Mirage 2000 C, in 1/ 48th scale, a 7" wingspan, using the BIM 22mm EDF

I needed a quick diversion from my current builds, and wanted to tinker with some very small micro gear for a bit. Time gets by, and projects that were planned get delayed. But I did purchase some of Kevon's (Boredom.is.me) BIM 22 EDF shrouds when he first designed and made them. So time has come for me to test some motor options and put them into an airframe.

I thought that a Delta would be a nice change of pace for me to build. The French Mirage has always been on the "planned List" and the Mirage 2000 is a sure winner. The "C" Variant was the single seat fighter/intercepter version which I happen to like the best.

So with careful scientific planning and research, (TLAR) I decided on a size that I could just squeese a 22mm EDF unit into and keep i fairly scale. It just happened to come out at 7" wingspan, and that is real close to 1/48th scale. Call it brains, call it luck, but I will need plenty of the luck part to get this thing to fly I am sure.

I will go with standard micro gear this first round so that it would be easy to duplicate and resonable in pricing to outfit the beast. I do intend to invest soon is some super micro gear like Chris T, Joe Malinchak, and Nitro Charged are using in the nano scale, but cost and the learning curve will have to wait. I have several other projects going that will need to be finished this Winter building season.

So that is my story and I will get started now with sharing my journey down the path of my micro Mirage 2000 C build.

Fred


EDIT: Added photo of the Mirage model after completion and maiden flight. Nose was altered from original configuration to aide in flight duties. Now that the model proved to fly, I might add some more details mostly with color enhancements to mimic the real bird. This after some more flights are under her belt. LOL.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 06:10 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
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Designing the Model from detailed 3 view drawings.

These photos are my reference material found from my seaarching and research to develop the airframe of my Mirage 2000 C model. The first two are especially helpful to get the shape and profiles accurate, noting the half formers and related station lines drawn by the artist.

My first job was to get a printout done, measure it, and determine what scale I would need to resize my printout for my model's size. Next I also did the same for the second drawing until they were both the same scale. Measuring the length of the fuselage during this graphic work was easy to obtain my results.

This done, I had what I need to start developing an airframe. No CAD work or re-drawing needed. I do love the smaller scale work for this very reason. Such a time saver!

Fred
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 06:10 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
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OK another spot for later submission of some goodies!

Fred
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 06:14 PM
it wasn't me flying that plane
Hover or die's Avatar
United States, NC, Wilmington
Joined Mar 2011
705 Posts
All in!
Freddie,
This one should be amazing!And tiny too....
Ill certainly be watching along with the rest of the micro crew...lol....
Lots of pics...please:-)...
Take care............Chris

Chris raises hand as he needs to come up to speed on the nano gear as well....Freddie,
Did you see those tiny retracts in nitros thread? Amazing stuff.....
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:07 PM
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are you gonna go brushed brushless, or lightweight brushless?
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 12:47 AM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hover or die View Post
All in!
Freddie,
This one should be amazing!And tiny too....
Ill certainly be watching along with the rest of the micro crew...lol....
Lots of pics...please:-)...
Take care............Chris

Chris raises hand as he needs to come up to speed on the nano gear as well....Freddie,
Did you see those tiny retracts in nitros thread? Amazing stuff.....
Thanks Chris. I will do as many pictures as I can, but hope to make this a quick build. Small is so cool, and less work in my opinion. The nano gear is pretty special for sure, just seems a mystery when you have not used it before. Tiny hardly describes it for sure.

I agree on the tiny retracts also. I need to look it up but someone did a P-51 micro that had 4 channel controls, flaps, retracts, and it weighed just grams. Someday maybe, but I still need to personally conquer the 20mm EDF beast first! LOL.

Sorry no further posts today with the holiday, but more to come tomorrow!

Fred
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 12:57 AM
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Omaha Nebraska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minimicrorc View Post
are you gonna go brushed brushless, or lightweight brushless?
I started posting some testing on brushed motors in BIM's new thread. My bad, and I will move that over to here to keep it seperate as it should have been. I still think brushed can be lighter (in an easier way) than brushless, but probably less perfomance. So the airframe needs to be light as possible.

That is asking a lot for sure, so into the unknown (by me anyway) realm of "will this work" because the standard micro parts have come down in size, weight, but offer better perfomance over the stuff available a few years ago, yet they still add up to more weight than I would like ......... quickly! LOL

I have no fear because failure has always been an option on a road to discovery and education, as long as it leads to overcoming those limitations and arriving at success in the end. My ultimate will be a twin jet soon, using two brushed motors because that should be easier than this single motor effort!

I'll be back soon to start some real data sharing with photos. Thanks.

Fred
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 10:27 AM
Fear me, I'm a space-duck.
hanzie's Avatar
Nederland, GE, Wageningen
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Yush! The mirage 2000, one of my favorites! Good luck on that one.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 10:42 AM
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Freddie B's Avatar
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OK, Don't laugh.......


I edited post #2 above to show all the referance material in the form of Drawings to develope my Mirage 2000-c airframe. You can scroll up a few posts to check it out. This was an easy and great find. Specifically the formers detailed out on a side profile was sweet!

Next is the tiny die cast model I found at Walmart of a Mirage 2000, done in the Blue-Gray scheme. This cost less than $4.00 (US Dollar), and although not super detailed, a very nice item to cross check the drawings and my work against as I go. Nothing like a 3 dimensional object in your hands to really clear things up. If you can find an inexpensive aide such as this I say go for it. I promise I have not ran around the room with the tiny cast model making jet and cannon noises.

Fred



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Old Nov 23, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Freddie B's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanzie View Post
Yush! The mirage 2000, one of my favorites! Good luck on that one.
Thanks Hanzie.

Hope all is going well for you too. I think luck will be needed in the power to weight department, but nothing to do but go for it and see what we come up with! A fine airplane to model. Every Mirage 2000 model I ever saw flew well, so I hope mine does too. As CN would say, "Delta's Rule" , LOL.

Fred
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:15 AM
Fear me, I'm a space-duck.
hanzie's Avatar
Nederland, GE, Wageningen
Joined Nov 2011
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Yeah sure, I'm doing fine. Haven't been building much lately due to exams and other hobbies (Fireworks season again ) but I might get back into micros somewhere this winter.

I'm also a great fan of deltas, they have a certain cool-factor with their big pointy wings, right? Do you want to go balsa or will it be another foam build?
Found this by the way:
Sky Fighters - Into The Fire (3 min 27 sec)

Hanzie
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
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Fan units from BimRC

Before we get too far ahead of the horse, I should step back and talk about the gear I will use in the build. After all this is the true start of my builds, which is to fit an airframe to my components.

Kev, aka known as Boredom.Is.Me here on RCG, sells EDF fan units, and has a newer thread started to list everything that is available. Pretty cool selection and quite a following. Click here to see BimRC Fan units, and for info on placing orders.

My initial fan shroud units were actually ordered back when Kev first started making fan units. I ordered some shrouds from batch one and two. Only problem is in the early days no rotors were available. Kev has changed all that, and now you can order both 3 and 4 blade rotors.

Several threads have had testing data submitted on the BimRC fans, but there is nothing like testing your own, right? Options exist for brushed and brushless motors with several mounting sizes available. I t could become confusing,m but I am only interested in the 20mm class at the moment, or should we say 22mm to be exact!

Fred


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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanzie View Post
Yeah sure, I'm doing fine. Haven't been building much lately due to exams and other hobbies (Fireworks season again ) but I might get back into micros somewhere this winter.

I'm also a great fan of deltas, they have a certain cool-factor with their big pointy wings, right? Do you want to go balsa or will it be another foam build?
Found this by the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX9L8IuiwJA
Hanzie


"Cette vidéo est superbe".


(French for: "That video is superb".) Fitting for a French Aircraft! LOL.

I picked a Delta Wing Aircraft specificlly for this project because the Delta Wing offers a large surface area in a given scale. A swept or straight wing airplane in 1/48th scale has a very tiny surface area in relation. I need to have all the lifting area I can get, yet keep the build small and light. Quite a requirement for the limitations a 22mm EDF will have in output and yet my RC gear will add up in weight quickly!

Foam for me, LOL. Balsa is great, but I am so addicted to foam that it's habit forming. (Forming, pun intended). Anyway follow along foam was a perfect choice on this build, for me anyway!

Thanks For sharing Hanzie.

Fred


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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:44 AM
Fear me, I'm a space-duck.
hanzie's Avatar
Nederland, GE, Wageningen
Joined Nov 2011
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I know the feeling.
Foam probably is the best way to go at this scale as it tends to be easier to form than balsa. (For me anyways! )
And no probs, I just ran across it on youtube some time ago.
Hanzie
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 12:27 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
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A direct quote from UNGN taken from a BIM thread, testing 20mm and 22mm EDF units.

I give full credit to this data posted by UNGN in Kev's other thread, but it is such good data I really wanted to share it here for everyone to have something to reference. This is using 7mm brushed motors, obtained from Flyzone products, and known at Bob Selman' website as the "Black" motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
Got home from hurricane Sandy late last night after spending a week in CT to find my Package. Thanks, Kevon!

First tested a 20mm with a Flyzone 7mm and the 3 blade prop. Results were a little weird. Max thrust was 6.7g, but what sounded like idling @ 1/2 throttle made over 5g of thrust. Motor was dead cold throughout the test, so more load won't hurl.

The difference in sound between half throttle and full throttle is double, but thrust was less than 1.5g more.

I then tested a 22mm housing with the same motor, but with a cutdown GWS fan. It had the same 5g @ 1/2 throttle, but made over 8.5g @ full throttle. Swapped on the BIM 4 Blade & it made nearly 9g in the same set up, and 6g @ 1/2 throttle.

The Extra 2mm of Diameter seems totally worth it for 1S. Weight is about .5g more for the 22mm/4blade fan combo over the 20mm/3 blade for over 2g more thrust. The GWS fan is about 2X the weight of a BIM 4 blade (for about the same thrust in the 22mm)

So the power system of a 20" WS A380 would weigh 18g and make close to 36g of thrust @ WOT and 24g @ Cruise.

In a nutshell, UNGN results related to my efforts at using the 22mm EDF were:

BimRC 22mm with GWS rotor, 7mm flyzone motor, 5g thrust @1/2 throttle, and 8.5g thrust @ WOT.
BimRC 22 mm with BIM 4 blade rotor, 7mm flyzone motor, 6g thrust @1/2 throttle, and 9g thrust @ WOT.

Not bad, remembering this is single cell LiPo, and a brushed setup weighing around 4g for the power unit.

Fred
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