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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:18 AM
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United States, MO, Springfield
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I've been trying a few android apps that are for logging time on your model as well as how many batteries. Their individual cycles used, current status and all kinds of things like how much charge was put into the pack, the internal resistance of each pack. Of course you just press a button to log a flight and select your pack. Then when your charging them you input the data and have it in basically a database you can take to the field. After each flight mark the packs and it will track all of your cycles for each pack.. If this kind of stuff makes me a "dork". I'm a "dork" like a fox. Whatever the hell that means.


I suppose, even for someone like me that drops by a field daily before or after work and on my days off. I fly A LOT. It's very hard to keep track of how many flights/run hours i put on something like my tail drive pulley or whatever before they start go wear down and go bad. Or the main culprit that has been a issue with Align helicopters as well as clones is the tail grips ejecting when the tail grip bearings wear out. It will eject the outer race of the bearing and the blade grip together, while the inner race stays attached to the spindle hub. Through all the time i put into a heli i couldn't tell you how many hours it was running before that bearing failed.

not sure a thrust bearing would help in that case looking at the pic the bearing isnt what failed you can see it totally intact
what failed was the metal the grip was made of
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:24 AM
Complete RC Idiot Savant
The Netherlands
Joined Nov 2009
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Originally Posted by finguz View Post
Brutus, I only have about 20 hrs under my belt! Only double your small checks.
Since Nov 2011: approx 60 hours on 3 different 450's without so much as a single bolt loosened for maintenance purpose. Visual checks only. That is one completely standard KDS 450 SV and two cheap (unpronouncable names) clones in HeliArtist fueselages. Only modifications a Copter-X multiblade head and swash, and an Align maingear and Align main shaft due to crash damage. Spinblades on the head, Hitec HS 65 BB on the swash, and Align ESC. Cheap motors, cheap everything in all other respect.

That is only the electric helis, I estimate I made another 150 hrs with the fuelers in the past year. There maintenance is more, logically.

Brgds, Bert
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:28 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
not sure a thrust bearing would help in that case looking at the pic the bearing isnt what failed you can see it totally intact
what failed was the metal the grip was made of
No, the bearing is not in tact. Your looking at the wrong bearing. The rear bearing of the grip is in tact. Above that you can see the brass bushing that goes between the two bearings inside the grip. Then the outside bearing only has the inside race attached. The outside broke free so the whole grip could come off the hub. You can clearly see the groove around the inner race of the bearing where the balls used to run around it. A thrust bearing cannot fail in this way since it is basically 2 washers with a ball bearing sandwiched between them. Just like in the main rotor grips.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:33 AM
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I just want to say. I have enjoyed this intelligent conversation. I'm sorry if i ever offend anyone. Truly. It's a shame the whole thread didn't run like this.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I can respect that. But why don't you leave that to the person under attack to decide? Again, i didn't read this thread so it's hard to know the full reference of what happened. Or how bad it got. Like i said, i edited my post to say so. You may not have seen that edit. Even i was offended by a remark i saw. But again, what is reporting it going to solve? Locks only keep honest people honest. Never once did a lock prevent a crook from entering. So like i said. Even if you banned him he would just come back under a different name. If it's bad enough by all means report away. Since i don't know how bad it got, it's hard to say something like i did i guess. But i don't think it accomplishes anything in the end.
Problem is, it's not/wasn't just this thread, this is just the one that had the most activity and got the attention.

The problem with some people is they get away a small thing and feel empowered - then they get away with something a little worse, then take it up another notch, etc...

And I'm not easily offended. I think forums like this should allow one X rated "longshoremans forum" where we can have the same conversation we would sitting in a bar and drinking a few beers. Nothing wrong with saying or once in while, as long as it's just a colorful metaphore and nothing more.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 04:53 AM
Get to the choppa!
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United States, PA, Pittsburgh
Joined Sep 2012
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Fin, I was wondering where you were on this. I have had no trouble with my exi, but I put the money I saved on my frame into good electronics and my heli flies like a dream. After a few small issues that needed to be sorted out, but IMO that just makes me a better heli builder.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 09:22 AM
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I'm not into small heli very much, but I do have an CopterX 450 PRO since a very long time, upgraded many many time, I have 500 + flight on it, numerous crash with it but 50% due to dumb thumb and the other 50% due to the darn TT gear stripping in flight, or main gear stripping, it's powered 6S lipo... a cheap 90$ clone frame with 700$ electronic on it, that' what make it reliable, I have to admitt the airframe design is not the best on the market.

However... I've owned HK 600, Tarot 550, Chaos 700, then stretched to 800, an now an Copterx 600pro, and a 700 V3 DFC, and a soon to be maidenaid 800 gasser (Align based). I have probably 700+ flight with all those heli and I never never never had a single crash with all of these, and never had a single machanical problem, but they all came at a +/- 2500$ to build, expensive yes, but never crashed, I call it a bargain really.

If you'r not ready to spent a very minimum 1200$ for a 550 size and more, don't do it, this will be 100% problem after problem, crash after crash.. etc... the elctronic is 80% + of the reliability.

This is not the first time I will sayd that, but clone airframe heli are unfortunately for advanced user, not for beginner, or at least to someone whith good knowledge in mechanic.

The best bang for your buck today is the Align kit, still not 100% reliable, but this is the minimum you have to get, they are the best beginner heli, anything under that is really questionable, and you can build your own combo with better stuff on some store if you want, some offer it online while other that you can email and ask what you want.

Now, if your plan is to built a clone with align electronic, you will spend more at the end than buying the whole align kit.

Unfortunately I don't think any Gaui clone will sell very much, they'r not popular and not worth to clone.

Another thing is the market is really overflooded of junk in this hobby, and all you see in the junk description is (high quality compoent, bla bla bla...) and the beginner don't really know what's good or not, a beginner is not able to tell the difference between Futaba and Walkera, and will usually buy what another beginner will tell him it's good...
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 10:12 AM
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KDS has started to clone Logos which is funny Mikado must be pissed
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 10:55 AM
Need More PURPLE !!
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Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
KDS has started to clone Logos which is funny Mikado must be pissed
Or flattered. ( could be a blessing in disguise for Mikado) I know align makes a ton of money from people that buy clones of align, then end up buying align parts for replacements...everybody loves money..
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 10:57 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlik View Post
Problem is, it's not/wasn't just this thread, this is just the one that had the most activity and got the attention.

The problem with some people is they get away a small thing and feel empowered - then they get away with something a little worse, then take it up another notch, etc...

And I'm not easily offended. I think forums like this should allow one X rated "longshoremans forum" where we can have the same conversation we would sitting in a bar and drinking a few beers. Nothing wrong with saying or once in while, as long as it's just a colorful metaphore and nothing more.
I think we are on the same page, i didn't think it had gotten quite so bad. Obviously, there was an ambitious attempt at... well... something. Whatever it is, i'm still trying to figure it out. Doesn't really matter though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RFDelie View Post
Fin, I was wondering where you were on this. I have had no trouble with my exi, but I put the money I saved on my frame into good electronics and my heli flies like a dream. After a few small issues that needed to be sorted out, but IMO that just makes me a better heli builder.
That sounds about right... I can scream it from roof tops all day. But no one hears the part about the electronics, i think. Or perhaps their building skills prevents them from being able to conceptualize using completely non-standard gear. Sure, there are some really poorly made parts out there. But most of the actual frame and mechanics are WAY cheaper than Align and basically the same. Like i said, wear and tear, service life issues and maybe some general replacements going on. But if a "Clone" is a copy of Align, why not buy the frame from the cloner and the electronics from Align or someone else? Since all the parts are almost always directly compatible you can always install Align parts later. In fact if your build skills are up to it, i would bet money on a guy building a clone of decent quality airframe using scorpion motors, Castle ESC, and a BeastX gyro or better, with futaba servos or MKS servos or something like that. His build would be more satisfying to me then a brand new stock Align already build for me as well. I would probably pay more for the clone just because it had superior electronics. I can sort out the frame issues later. Thats the CHEAP part.

I think the thing most people just are not getting is that you can build a Clone airframe into something half decent for as much as a Walkera costs and it will still fly better. The clones allow people to build incrementally also. So you don't have to drop $600-$1200 on a full kit. You do however have to have some knowledge of how to build. This is where the market gets screwed up. Because a newbie does not have the knowledge and experience to build in such a way. But experienced pilots do. I whole heartedly believe that rookies try and save their money on their first projects by buying clones. But they use the stock electronics either thinking they are all the same. Wires and circuits are just wires and circuits right? WRONG! lol. Before long, they quickly realize their mistakes and what works and what does not. So experienced pilots now know better and are a little less thrifty for their own good. But still, all the enamored enthusiasts and "fanboys" don't want to ever hear it. It's like the redneck who won't drive anything but a ford truck or whatever, i suppose. Stubburn.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
I'm not into small heli very much, but I do have an CopterX 450 PRO since a very long time, upgraded many many time, I have 500 + flight on it, numerous crash with it but 50% due to dumb thumb and the other 50% due to the darn TT gear stripping in flight, or main gear stripping, it's powered 6S lipo... a cheap 90$ clone frame with 700$ electronic on it, that' what make it reliable, I have to admitt the airframe design is not the best on the market.

However... I've owned HK 600, Tarot 550, Chaos 700, then stretched to 800, an now an Copterx 600pro, and a 700 V3 DFC, and a soon to be maidenaid 800 gasser (Align based). I have probably 700+ flight with all those heli and I never never never had a single crash with all of these, and never had a single machanical problem, but they all came at a +/- 2500$ to build, expensive yes, but never crashed, I call it a bargain really.

If you'r not ready to spent a very minimum 1200$ for a 550 size and more, don't do it, this will be 100% problem after problem, crash after crash.. etc... the elctronic is 80% + of the reliability.

This is not the first time I will sayd that, but clone airframe heli are unfortunately for advanced user, not for beginner, or at least to someone whith good knowledge in mechanic.

The best bang for your buck today is the Align kit, still not 100% reliable, but this is the minimum you have to get, they are the best beginner heli, anything under that is really questionable, and you can build your own combo with better stuff on some store if you want, some offer it online while other that you can email and ask what you want.

Now, if your plan is to built a clone with align electronic, you will spend more at the end than buying the whole align kit.

Unfortunately I don't think any Gaui clone will sell very much, they'r not popular and not worth to clone.

Another thing is the market is really overflooded of junk in this hobby, and all you see in the junk description is (high quality compoent, bla bla bla...) and the beginner don't really know what's good or not, a beginner is not able to tell the difference between Futaba and Walkera, and will usually buy what another beginner will tell him it's good...
I agree with everything your saying. But i think you severely underestimate the new Gaui X FES designs. From an engineering standpoint that is. I have to say, it's odd you would say they are not popular. Because they can't keep up with demand for their products. The NX4 was sold out everywhere i saw it listed in just a few days after they hit stores. I've watched wave after wave of X5 or X5 Premium packages with Vbar and brushless servos go flying off the shelf. I can't agree that they are not popular. If anything they simply don't have the production capacity that Align and others have. Being they had to stop production on their other helicopters and parts while they produced the NX4 for initial release. Because they couldn't produce enough to keep up with the anticipated demand. After the NX4 was released a whole wave of premium package X5's hit the market and sold out immediately. I purchased my X5, just before the "Premium" package was put on the shelfs. I wanted the BeastX package anyway. So it worked out for me. I'm sure you can look all over and if you find a Gaui X5 in stock it would be rare. The X7 seems to be a little less in demand, but thats because the X5 actually dominates the 500-550 class in performance. How can it not when the the competition is heavier, bigger and using 550mm blades but still only a 6S config. Yeah, i'd challenge anyone to not want to sell their Align 550 after flying a Gaui X5 or just holding one in your hands will almost convince you.

But if I'm wrong, meh. Everyone has their opinions and i respect them all. Even if i don't agree with them. I just think Gaui is the serious underdog that is going to grow into something much better still. At least as long as they keep using quality engineering designs and top notch equipment in their kits.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 11:44 AM
Need More PURPLE !!
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A little off topic here. but what the hey . What i have my eye on is this ..http://www.rc711.com/shop/alzrc-devi...th=165_273_353

Simply awsome a 480 size heli on 6s. Only what makes me hesitant is that it is made by alzrc. I'm guessing the same quality as tarot. ( not great-but not bad) Would be awsome if align or Gaui would come out with this size. It has the potential to kill off the 450 on 3s..well a big dent anyways.

Here is hoping that a 480 on 6s will be made in the future by many other brands. Then again there is the new "warp 360" But not a true size 480. Otherwise i would have bought yesterday with all the trimings. Bounced check or not. ha
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:06 PM
Hong Kong
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Originally Posted by Dejavu*Xion View Post
A little off topic here. but what the hey . What i have my eye on is this ..http://www.rc711.com/shop/alzrc-devi...th=165_273_353

Simply awsome a 480 size heli on 6s. Only what makes me hesitant is that it is made by alzrc. I'm guessing the same quality as tarot. ( not great-but not bad) Would be awsome if align or Gaui would come out with this size. It has the potential to kill off the 450 on 3s..well a big dent anyways.

Here is hoping that a 480 on 6s will be made in the future by many other brands. Then again there is the new "warp 360" But not a true size 480. Otherwise i would have bought yesterday with all the trimings. Bounced check or not. ha
ALZRC = Align 2 RC. Both it and Tarot are rumored to have links with Align itself.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:54 PM
Don't take any wooden nickels
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
Another thing is the market is really overflooded of junk in this hobby, and all you see in the junk description is (high quality compoent, bla bla bla...) and the beginner don't really know what's good or not, a beginner is not able to tell the difference between Futaba and Walkera, and will usually buy what another beginner will tell him it's good...
exactly.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 01:09 PM
Don't take any wooden nickels
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by RFDelie View Post
Fin, I was wondering where you were on this. I have had no trouble with my exi, but I put the money I saved on my frame into good electronics and my heli flies like a dream. After a few small issues that needed to be sorted out, but IMO that just makes me a better heli builder.
I had the same experience with my exi pro, but my point is I could've/should've bought an Align for the same price. How much have you put into yours? I have a used gyro & tail servo which saved money but they're used... I still run exi d213f servos on my exi too, which has made it cheaper, but not really because they are $8 each and I always get at least 2 bad ones in a batch and recently none have been perfect... I'm about done with them.

Overall it maybe Slightly cheaper to go with a clone but in all I'd still rather own a real one at that point, and it all fits together. I have to slightly modify the exi servos to work... not a problem of the kit itself, but with an Align combo you know it's going to fit
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