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Old Nov 22, 2012, 01:33 PM
Get to the choppa!
RFDelie's Avatar
United States, PA, Pittsburgh
Joined Sep 2012
358 Posts
I was just saying in another post. One of my favorite helis is my v911, it is a clone of a clone, It cost me 40.00 and I still fly it more than any other helicopter I own. I have wrecked it more than 100 times and it is still flying strong.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 01:39 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
solentlife's Avatar
Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
Joined Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
ok ill bite

clones are totally awful but darn close and more so for some one new
and you really dont save any thing in the end

since almost all clones if we are talking about Align clones need most major parts replaced to make them decent models

the issue is the new builder pilot wont know this and when your learning
you need a good solid heli so your not guessing if its you or the heli that the issue

so you end up spending just as much if not more in the long run in "upgrades" and replacements then if you just got the Align kit
and this doesnt even count that once you be the same level of electronics in the clone its not that much less then that Align super combo
Well I have to say I do not agree with you ...................

a) Align is a clone itself.
b) I bought an RTF clone 450 SE V2 2 yrs ago and its still flying today.
c) I have bought Align parts for it but found some to be inferior to the 'clone' parts - the one-way bearing tube is a good example ... Tarot integrated tail unit vs Align is another ...
d) I have had Align main gear wheels MORE warped than my clone ones at 1/4 the price
e) A crash is guaranteed whatever price you pay when learning - so why bankrupt yourself buying supposed better gear as Align ?
f) If clones were so bad - why are so many people flying them and KEEP flying them after moving on from newbie ?
g) A clone intro is a good way to go as you can upgrade over time - spreading the financial burden out rather than a single hard hit on the pocket.

I could go on - but it's one of those arguments that is similar to the : I drive a Rolls Royce and it gets me to B ... while another drives a Ford and he gets to B just the same but maybe a bit less comfort !

The clone market (we'll ignore Align for their cloning originally ...) has introduced a lot of people to Rc Heli's who otherwise would not have tried. I spent approx $200 to get an RTF ... which as I say still flies today ... I would never have spent Align prices ... and still today will not. I have found excellent budget suppliers and that's it ... I have no interest in 3D work - so top of the range gear to do that is not necessary.

For me - I don't give a rats a*** what another buys as long as it's their decision and they are happy with it. I also like to think that I'm not going to be lectured about my choices ...

The worlds a big place ..

Nigel
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 01:40 PM
Get to the choppa!
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United States, PA, Pittsburgh
Joined Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by karlik View Post
There are cheap clones that exist only to make someone a profit and nothing else, and there are decent clones that aren't a bad investment - depending on what you plan to do with it.
I have the EXI "plastic" 450 - the cheapest one they make. The only "plastic" is the head and tail, and they held up and flew just fine (about a year) until a crash that I suspect was caused by static discharge. It's my understanding that the Align SE V2 is also susceptable to static discharge? Just replacing the EXI stuff with genuine Align parts most likely would not have prevented the crash. An expensive Align head would not have survived the crash undamaged either. I replaced them with the EXI metal head and tail and I'm quite happy.
I don't expect to see any EXI clones winning any 3D competition in the near future; but no, most major parts don't need to be replaced to make it a decent model.
Ya I bought the one right above that, the 450 sport. I think there are some parts of it that are actually nicer than their align counterparts. The servo mounts for instance are metal as opposed to the plastic align parts, and the linkage rods are at least twice as thick as the align rods.

I had a real bad crash when my heli caught a gust of wind, shot straight up and into a power line, I cut the throttle and it fell 20 feet or so onto concrete. I wrecked damn near every part on the heli, the frame and electronics (and the swash plate were all that survived, I also lost a cyclic servo. So I replaced them with align parts.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 02:50 PM
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United States, RI, Westerly
Joined May 2012
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Wow, this place is so much like Harmony Central (guitar forum)...who cares what it is? I've got a Double Horse cheap, crappy, mostly plastic helicopter that I enjoy the Hell out of flying, and the sixty bucks I spent on it won't be too much of a dent in my wallet if I have to fix it or even modify it if I so choose. People want to spend a ton of money on a toy helicopter is their business, but when you get people like that Gaui guy looking down his nose at people for what they own...well, all you really have to do there is consider the source...
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by matiac View Post
Wow, this place is so much like Harmony Central (guitar forum)......
OMG - back in the early 70's I bought a cheap Italian J.G. guitar from the place I was taking lessons - and all the guys who played the Fender and the Les Paul laughed at it.
I can't find it right now, but somewhere on the internet is a picture of Jimi Hendrix playing that same model J G Guitar, and since he was from Seattle just a few miles north of me, I'm guessing he bought it at the Seattle store.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 03:49 PM
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United States, MO, Springfield
Joined Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Well I have to say I do not agree with you ...................

a) Align is a clone itself.
b) I bought an RTF clone 450 SE V2 2 yrs ago and its still flying today.
c) I have bought Align parts for it but found some to be inferior to the 'clone' parts - the one-way bearing tube is a good example ... Tarot integrated tail unit vs Align is another ...
d) I have had Align main gear wheels MORE warped than my clone ones at 1/4 the price
e) A crash is guaranteed whatever price you pay when learning - so why bankrupt yourself buying supposed better gear as Align ?
f) If clones were so bad - why are so many people flying them and KEEP flying them after moving on from newbie ?
g) A clone intro is a good way to go as you can upgrade over time - spreading the financial burden out rather than a single hard hit on the pocket.

I could go on - but it's one of those arguments that is similar to the : I drive a Rolls Royce and it gets me to B ... while another drives a Ford and he gets to B just the same but maybe a bit less comfort !

The clone market (we'll ignore Align for their cloning originally ...) has introduced a lot of people to Rc Heli's who otherwise would not have tried. I spent approx $200 to get an RTF ... which as I say still flies today ... I would never have spent Align prices ... and still today will not. I have found excellent budget suppliers and that's it ... I have no interest in 3D work - so top of the range gear to do that is not necessary.

For me - I don't give a rats a*** what another buys as long as it's their decision and they are happy with it. I also like to think that I'm not going to be lectured about my choices ...

The worlds a big place ..

Nigel
Align as far as i know is not a clone of any thing
they bought the design for the first "T-rex" a 450 size heli
since then all there stuff is done in house and are not clones of any other helis on the market
but the T-rex was/is not a clone
now if you want to get techical almost ALL helis are a clone of the early Hirobo and Shuller(sp?) models if you look at the major parts
CCPM helis are pretty much layed out the same as well
but i dont know another heli that looks close to Aligns larger birds any way

if some one whats to buy a clone thats fine but i fell they should be given the whole story

if all your going to do is hover around and some FF , and already know how to fly and build/repair a heli
sure a clone might be ok
but for some one starting out flying on a known good heli is a HUGE help
no guessing if the tail issue is setup or a bad gyro/vibs and trying to chase it down with little knowledge of the hobby
i tryed to learn on a Blade SR not even a clone but a poor heli none the less and was bearly hovering tail in
i did some homework got a T-rex 500 and was hover all orientations with in a few months sport flying in a year
why? 1. i wasnt fixing the heli all the time 2. i wasnt chasing issues with it that i had limited knowledge of
3. by building a kit i had a better understanding of how to repair it so repairs where painless
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Last edited by Elios000; Nov 22, 2012 at 05:26 PM.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 05:17 PM
AMA 994002
matiac's Avatar
United States, RI, Westerly
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlik View Post
OMG - back in the early 70's I bought a cheap Italian J.G. guitar from the place I was taking lessons - and all the guys who played the Fender and the Les Paul laughed at it.
I can't find it right now, but somewhere on the internet is a picture of Jimi Hendrix playing that same model J G Guitar, and since he was from Seattle just a few miles north of me, I'm guessing he bought it at the Seattle store.
I know the guitar you speak of, my tech has one for sale in his shop, they're kinda similar to the old Teisco Guitars (my first)...kinda wish I still had it for slide guitar, it had a nice twang to it for that sort of thing...
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 07:47 PM
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Darsh's Avatar
Joined Jun 2012
325 Posts
Am I late to the party? Damn. However I'd just like to point out that about 50% of how an helicopter flies lies in its head design, and quality thereof. And this true both on the 30 bucks toy helicopter, and the real thing, full size machine. A well engineered, no slop and correctly maintained mechanic will beat the crap out of any other helicopter, clone or not. This is one of those areas where even a little detail can make a huge difference. Sorry for the interruption, keep on brawlin'
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Darsh View Post
Am I late to the party? Damn. However I'd just like to point out that about 50% of how an helicopter flies lies in its head design, and quality thereof. And this true both on the 30 bucks toy helicopter, and the real thing, full size machine. A well engineered, no slop and correctly maintained mechanic will beat the crap out of any other helicopter, clone or not. This is one of those areas where even a little detail can make a huge difference. Sorry for the interruption, keep on brawlin'
That is so true.....!!! And now their almost all flybarless, so if using the same electronic and blades, you will not see an once of difference flying an gaui or a good clone.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:57 PM
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martin that almost would be true but cheap junk servos do not work with a flybarless multi axis gyro..the only small heli that gaui makes is a 255 size and no cheap junk clone would even compare to that.......Darsh a good qualist heli can handle the beating and keep flying unlike a cheap clone with cheap head parts..
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 11:12 PM
Beginner Pilot
United States, NY, Coram
Joined Jul 2012
374 Posts
Clones get people into the hobby and thats what matters. Eventually, if they stick to it, they will step up to the "better quality" products like TSA, MA, and the like....... When it comes down to it, the safety part all comes down to the individual person and how they assemble, fly and maintain their heli. You can own a top of the line, state of the art, $2000 heli and not take the time to assemble it properly, fly recklassly, or not maintain it properly and do some serious damage. There aren't to many pilots I know, including me, that did not start with a clone. Never any mishaps on my end nor on the end of the other pilots I know. I see nothing wrong with it and I think it;s great that we have the option to buy cheap and still have a blast flying and growing in this hobby.
Jeff
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 12:44 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
solentlife's Avatar
Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gs550t1981 View Post
Clones get people into the hobby and thats what matters. Eventually, if they stick to it, they will step up to the "better quality" products like TSA, MA, and the like....... When it comes down to it, the safety part all comes down to the individual person and how they assemble, fly and maintain their heli. You can own a top of the line, state of the art, $2000 heli and not take the time to assemble it properly, fly recklassly, or not maintain it properly and do some serious damage. There aren't to many pilots I know, including me, that did not start with a clone. Never any mishaps on my end nor on the end of the other pilots I know. I see nothing wrong with it and I think it;s great that we have the option to buy cheap and still have a blast flying and growing in this hobby.
Jeff
So very very true ....

Nigel
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 01:00 AM
My dog is PERFECT in my eyes
Joined Mar 2010
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I learned (or tried to learn) on a Blade CP. Nothing good in results so I moved to a CP Pro, still had many problems. The minuet I upgraded the servos/gyro/motor/ESC/ brushless motor/ and got a DX6, I could actually FLY the CP-Pro and not have any problems because I was no longer having mechanical or electronic failure everytime I powered it up.

The trend here seems to be that as long as you use good stuff to build a clone, they can be as good as the expensive brand name units or REALLY close to being as good.

*Align 450 Pro "combo or super combo" about $370 to $470 USD

*EXI-450 Pro (bare bones kit all metal head and tail) about $140 USD

*Keep R/C or HK 450 Pro (same as EXI but noteable lower quality) about $60 USD

I own or have owned all 4 brands and really the EXI 450 comes in at the top of my list of helicopters to buy but alas, they're all dried up....

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, and Happy Holidays.

My avitar TH-57 shown now has the Align 450 Pro in it. It used to be an EXI-450 pro in there.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 02:42 AM
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United States, MO, Springfield
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Originally Posted by metalbenderusn View Post
I learned (or tried to learn) on a Blade CP. Nothing good in results so I moved to a CP Pro, still had many problems. The minuet I upgraded the servos/gyro/motor/ESC/ brushless motor/ and got a DX6, I could actually FLY the CP-Pro and not have any problems because I was no longer having mechanical or electronic failure everytime I powered it up.

The trend here seems to be that as long as you use good stuff to build a clone, they can be as good as the expensive brand name units or REALLY close to being as good.

*Align 450 Pro "combo or super combo" about $370 to $470 USD

*EXI-450 Pro (bare bones kit all metal head and tail) about $140 USD

*Keep R/C or HK 450 Pro (same as EXI but noteable lower quality) about $60 USD

I own or have owned all 4 brands and really the EXI 450 comes in at the top of my list of helicopters to buy but alas, they're all dried up....

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, and Happy Holidays.

My avitar TH-57 shown now has the Align 450 Pro in it. It used to be an EXI-450 pro in there.
thats the thing by the time you put the same level of stuff in that 140 buck EXI and replace the few thing that need to be replaced out of the box you might as well of bought the Align kit
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 07:49 AM
Get to the choppa!
RFDelie's Avatar
United States, PA, Pittsburgh
Joined Sep 2012
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I was a beginner when I bought my clone. After building and figuring out my own problem I can say I have learned MUCH more than I would have had I bought a RTF or an assembled kit. I did not just use the esc that came in the kit. I had to research what motors and esc's worked together. I had to learn all about the LiPo batteries. Then there is the troubleshooting issues in flight, and the controller configuration. I would not trade my kit experience for an RTF. In my opinion that is how people get in and quickly out of this hobby, they buy a kit, crash it, and throw it in a corner and forget about it.
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