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Old Dec 22, 2012, 12:22 PM
cant get right !!!
trucker41's Avatar
United States, CA, Victorville
Joined Sep 2012
321 Posts
any time . as of now im not so sure i want to builed that 21st century . i am thinkin its alot more hastle to find something that would fit
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 12:55 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,481 Posts
It really looks more like a 500 size than anything else, as even a 550 frame would be a tight fit in there. I should take a picture of this plastic model at the shop just to make sure I am looking at the same thing you have, but the only large toy helicopter I have ever seen, was the black MD500D that has the rocket launchers and M134's just as you have them. There can't be more than that one out there, lol. Maybe what you need to do is figure how it is going to fit in the body and then if there is any portion of the frame that is not required, remove it, provided it does not ruin the structural intengrity of the heli frame. With supports properly placed, the entire lower portion of the frame may be removed and certainly the battery and receiver support. Other places can be found for them and anything else that was attached to the floor of the chassis, like the fuel tank (if you are still keeping it to the nitro model). Take care.

Don
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:33 PM
cant get right !!!
trucker41's Avatar
United States, CA, Victorville
Joined Sep 2012
321 Posts
iv given up on the nitro . i thought i had seen one done on you tube by scale master but it was actualy a moded 600 fuse . after thinking of the weight issues and mods to the toy so i am going to end up buying the fuse and a 600e and build up from there
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:01 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,481 Posts
Funny about that fuse, I went to the shop and picked up some paint to match the heli and took the nose with me. I was pretty much on the money as my 600 nose completely encases the 21st Century toy up to the rotor, lol. I said to the guys there that in order to get an action figure in there, they must have to break the legs and back. Before you buy a 600E, I want you to look at the AS350 build thread of mine and have another close look at what I am doing with this build. In order to put in a full cockpit, the front of the 600E and Pro are too long so both need to be chopped. The Pro is simple, remove the electronics housing and take the rods out of the housing and use them to space the frame. With the E, you should be able to remove a lot of the nose without taking away from the strength of the chassis and either split the battery up or mount it on either side (left would be best) as the cockpit and pilots will add the lost weight of the battery in stock position. You can see how much I cut off the Logo and it is still strong as an ox. If you are not into the interior, then any 600 will do the job. Take care.

Don
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 02:16 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,481 Posts
I got a bit done today. I JB Welded the tail rotor pitch control rod in place and removed all the quick ties. They tend to catch in the boxes along the bottom of the tail boom and since it has to come in and out many time before it is done, it might as well be as smooth as possible. With one trial fit afterwards, I found that I will need to slot the very end of the boom to clear the tail pitch rod as it exits the boom. Once painted to match the boom, it will become part of the heli and nothing more than that. I found that Tamiya Tan (AS-15) is an absolute perfect match for the main colour so that may help some of you if you have not found this out yet. I do mean perfect. I sprayed the area that will be covered by the camera sight and you cannot see the paint I sprayed on at all.

The landing gear was another little job I went after today. They are a bit too long to give a proper stance as they are standard gear, not extended or custom done. I still have to reduce the length of the rear legs but that I will do tomorrow or after Christmas. I shortened them overal by 20mm in the front and 25mm in the back but I may need a couple of more milimeters in the back to get the 4 or so degrees of squat the tail has. It only takes a few minutes so no big deal. Pics from today. Take care.

Don

Boom work and gear before and after 20mm taken off


Side shot before I took another 5mm off the rear legs but that is still not enough. 2 or 3 more will do it
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 10:08 PM
Redjestird Youser
SidewaysLS4's Avatar
Joined Jan 2009
3,878 Posts
Nice work on the Logo mod...I like seeing some heavy duty mods . I think you should have one quiet scaler there with the Logo gears.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 08:27 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,481 Posts
This is now the third time I am writing this. I HATE FORUM SOFTWARE. It has the retention span of a gnat. I am now writing this with Word so it will not get vaporized by some stupid keystroke or slight of the fingers.

Rant off.

Thanks. The standard landing gear legs that come with these models are more close to the tall set of optional gear from the factory which puts the boom level with the ground, but they are much too long for use as the standard skid set, which are fairly short. I have taken another two millimeters off of the height of the rear gear and now the tail boom is set at a 5 degree angle down. With the actual heli having a 5 degree forward angled main shaft, it puts the main rotor level with the ground when at rest. If this had been an Align chassis, the rotor angle setup would not have been as easy to achieve but it does come at some cost. The tail boom of the Logo is angled up so that the tail rotor is much higher than most other helicopters on the market.

The cost is that the chassis must be raised significantly higher in the body to get the chassis’ boom to fit into the body. It raises the main part of the chassis so high that the servos are nearly in contact with the doghouse and the main shaft becomes nearly an inch too high. Shortening the main shaft is not the most difficult thing to do but reworking this chassis to get it to work in this body kit has really had me thinking more than doing. In retrospect, the AS350 was nowhere near as complicated and even that one has a noticeable angle to the rotor (scale) that is not as noticeable when the Align 600E chassis is used. The boom of the Logo is so low that the frame doesn’t make contact with the floor plate of the body when pushed in where it is supposed to be, yet it does not have a lot of room to be raised as the servos then hit the body. Even the installed former had to be cut out to clear the chassis because of its width.

This body is more semi-scale than scale. The doghouse is not the right length, height, or shape for a “D” model but seems to share the features of other models all rolled into one. It does make it difficult to place the main rotor shaft and even the tail boom is too long because of the length of the model boom. The front doors are not the correct shape and that cost me time trying to place the position of the seat riser, height of the front floor and the height and position of the rear floor. Only the rear floor is parallel to the factory datum lines in the service manual which presents difficulty because the mounting floor of the model is set too high. I am still torn as to what I am going to do with it. I could cut the door, remove part of the floor, and install a partial new floor that would let some scale detailing be done but the more I look at it, the more difficult the work would be for very little gain. The landing gear is in pretty much in the scale location but the engine doors come too far forward and the weapon booms are too high and too far forward. It was later versions of the TD that had wing shaped booms as the original Israeli TD’s used round tube.

This is going to end up being just a very cool looking helicopter with a number of scale-like features. I have seen this in just about every single body out there, including those from HeliArtist, Vario, and other top brand names. I guess there becomes a point in time when the cost to make a true scale body is not worth it for a manufacturer, nor appreciated, as most customers are happy to have sport scale body kits that are close enough to scale rather than true to scale. I would hate to imagine dealing with a true scale tail housing of a 1/6th scale MD500. It would be tiny! Take care.

Don
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 10:16 PM
Registered User
Australia, QLD, Brookfield
Joined May 2010
32 Posts
It's a lot if work ahead, this why my Ah-6 took so long to build. I had to make massive modifications and totally underestimated how hard and long the task would be. When people look at mine they do not really see nor understand the extent of the modifications......it's looks easy......it wasn't. Keep trying, it can be done, but be prepared to put a lot of time and thought into it.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 02:36 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,481 Posts
Thanks, Hank79.

I have spent the best part of 8 hours making up two 1/4" plates and one 3/16" plate out of plywood to adapt the chassis to the floor of the model. I am now waiting for the glue to set on the little blind nut plates underneath the floor. Most of the time was spent doing measurement after measurement to make sure that I didn't foul things up. I have now given up trying to put a back area into the heli as there really is not enough space beside the chassis to put a jump seat back there. In reality, I should try and put some mockup of the electronic firing control together in the back that leads out to the TOW missile launchers.

I now really chuckle at how simple the installation was in the AS350 but there are so many similarities between them that is is hard to imagine that this is that much more difficult. I think because there is nearly no clearance of this chassis compared to the Align 600 Pro, it has made things tougher to place and position. Because of the design of the chassis of the Logo, the back is actually lower than the front but it is such a small amount that it is more professional to file fit the rear riser posts than to add a shim washer to the front. It will also keep the mounting as solid as possible and not torque the boom tube. I hope that in the morning, I can get at the install and have something to show a fellow that would like to install a Logo into an MD500 body kit. This one is quite the task and at least I have lots of time to work away at it while waiting for the next season of the TV series I was working on to start up again. I may actually cut the slot in the boom and install the tail rotor just to have a fast look-see. Take care.

Don
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 10:41 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
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I now have those three parts ready for install to see how they will actually fit. I took out some of the extra ply that would never be used for anything and the reason the plate is offset is to make a little bench for electronics to be attached to. I will have the ESC up front and maybe the BEC or extended receiver behind that. There may be lots of room for them and even the other side can be used to mount the light controller but that may be just installed on the floor and then jumped to the extended RX. I will try and get the chassis mounted in there and once it is settled in, the real electronics work will begin. Basically, I will be gutting the Logo and replacing all but the servos and BEC. It will get a 17 channel setup, Skookum 720 (and the GPS/Altimeter when they get in), CC Phoenix 85A ESC, and the RC Lights controller. I think the battery will go where it is now with the pilots and scale interior balancing out the change in battery position. I am also going to use an electronics battery pack that will power the BEC. At least this is now only a week or so away from being airborne. Complete is a completely different story. Take care.

Don



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Old Dec 27, 2012, 02:55 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
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I got a bit further with the chassis mount, tail fitting, and motor orientation. The chassis mount fitted up very nicely but the rear posts needed to have 1mm removed as the chassis sits on an angle, not flat at all. Since I have no lathe, hand filing was in order, so while listening to the Big Valley movie, they were trimmed and then fitted with the front snugged down to check that they slid in but were not loose. With that done, it was time to start the tail fitting so that it would not be left until the last minute. So far, it seems to have enough clearance to move freely but close enough that when painted the colour of the boom, it will blend in nicely. The motor had the leads coming out the left side when in pod and boom form but with the changes planned, it was better that the leads were swung over to the other side. Once the ESC is in, the rest of the electronics can then be fitted in and around the various openings in the mount and the frame. The Spartan gyro will be a thing of the past and will end up in the parts bin, along with a couple of other tail gyros sitting there. The same will go for the SK360 but that can be still used on another smaller scale build if I take my 450 Pro and stuff it into something that I don't have now, maybe a baby Huey, or if a 5 blade head makes it to this part of the Northern Hemisphere, I may put it in my 250 MD500E. On with the pictures. Take care.

Don





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Old Dec 28, 2012, 05:49 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
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Spent some time thinking about how to do the lighting in this bird. I am tied as to the size of the spaces that leds can be fitted so 3mm seems to be the size of the day. Only two light housings will have 5mm leds and those will be the beacon type lights on the top of the boom and the bottom of the nose. Now, I can't find a single shot of the TOW Defender with that front light housing and I am tempted just to close it off and call it a day. I may yet do it as paint matching is no issue. Since this is only going to be a standoff scale heli, I am not too concerned that the landing skid light housings are not perfectly to scale and as long as they give the required range of lighting for those navigation lights, that will be good in my books. I had quite a time putting holes in the rear marker beacon as it is solid and very thin at that. Twice, I poked through the housing as the drill was on its way to the fin, but in the long run, the wire channel is in. Some epoxy and touchup paint will make things right. I had some idea that the horizontal tail strobe was on level with the trailing edge of the surface but a look through the maintanence manual informed me that the light is mounted on top of the wing. That will be fairly easy to do and the initial hole I put in for the lighting will be covered back up when I do the marker beacon.

On another note, while looking at some footage of the Israeli TOW Defenders in actual flight, I discovered that these birds were constantly being upgraded with new technology and what was on the video may have been from 25 years ago. The latest editions in their museums or scrap yards show quite a difference in overall equipment for communications and other electronics that have been added since the film was shot. It is entirely possibe that first versions may have had lights up front but were removed for more stealthy approaching a target. There are a few antennae that are not mounted in the model but are clearly visible in the actual heli and even those are not consistant from footage to recent photographs. Within reason, you could attach most equipment that was current from the mid eighties to the mid nineties and not be far from reality. I will most likely not mount the Hellfire missiles and put them up for sale but the other external stores will see some time on the pods. I will try and build a simple 7 rocket tube launcher for times that I want a change in the appearance and even the minigun will spend some time there but with the ammo belt being just hung off the side of the fuselage or the ammo can strapped to the boom. I hope to get out and find some very fine wire to do the feeding of these leds as the wires that come with the kit are fine for fishing though the body but are far too big to make it out to those spots with the 3mm leds. Take care.

Don
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:13 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
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Once I actually got to fabricating the light housing out of the skid tip, it became easy to do the second one and it took half the time. I will pack the housing with glue that does not cure hard to save the little leds from impact shock (if they are affected by it). Along with working on those, I did some layout work on the interior panels with help from the maintenance manual. Man, that thing is just over 2000 pages long and covers everything about the D, E, F, N, and stretched N models.

For those not acquainted with the heli, there is a wall between the front and rear compartments that has a solid centre panel from floor to ceiling and two shoulder height openings on either side where you can talk to those up front. That solid panel holds the control linkage rods from the front. The lines in the front canopy show where that wall will eventually be and the little tick mark near the top of the door is how high the wall is. Because of the layout of the chassis, the solid panel will not be in there but I might cover in the mechanics so that the motor cannot be directly seen from the front. I also just found out that I have two different interior colours, Nato Black in the front and some form of light pale blue/grey, again another Nato colour, I'll bet. On with tonights small pics.

Don





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Old Dec 30, 2012, 12:44 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
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It is absolutely amazing how fast 7 hours goes when you are deep into a build. I got out and bought the wire I need to finish the installation off of the leds. I drilled some holes in the vertical tail to feed the wire down from the strobe light on the tail. I fumbled with that for an hour until I figured out a simple method of getting the wire to go in without getting caught on the fibreglass inside. I thought that I was going to be smart and use a three wire system to wire up the two lights, but after an hour or more making up the wire and two more doing up the two leds, I found you cannot use a common ground with this unit. In other words, each led gets one pair of wires and there is no other way. Another hour went by in order to make up a second cable.

The next thing was to mount the tail feathers on top of the vertical tail. That was very uneventful and done with JB Weld. I also used that to fill in the extra holes I made drilling out the marker beacon housing and one I made in the horizontal tail for a wire that didn’t need to be fed that way. I actually found that the white strobe light is wired from the vertical tail directly over to the horizontal tail right beside the light. I found a nice little spacer left over from the Logo that worked to make a nice little light housing to replicate the original. The entire assembly will be painted to match the rest of the tail so I am not worried about the red and black mismatch. Now I have to ponder the lighting of the skid navigation lights and I bet that will take two hours or more just to think about it, lol. The JB Weld has not dried yet in the pictures so I will need to wait until the morning to touch up everything. That’s it for now. Take care.

Don



Strobe light details


This is to replicate the original wire to power the strobe
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 04:57 PM
Redjestird Youser
SidewaysLS4's Avatar
Joined Jan 2009
3,878 Posts
Looking good. JB Weld is my new favorite epoxy for building things also. I do keep some 5 minute stuff for weaker/speedier needs.

Maybe mask and smear over the red and black wires with JB or filler to blend it in some?
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