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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:49 AM
Videographer/Product Reviews
Joined Oct 2012
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Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
Phantom w/skids, w/props, w/o battery = 624g
Phantom battery = 172g
Phantom GoPro mount = 23g
Thank you for weighing this.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:57 AM
FPVpilots do it remotely
United States, CA, West Hollywood
Joined Jan 2008
2,692 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub J View Post
Phantom dedicated version will be avialable in a few days -
I have just receive my Phantom

Jakub
YEAH. the Jakub gimbal i awesome..! I really want to see you do it in CF, the glass is a bit heavy for the Phantom.?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:02 AM
Jakub J's Avatar
Krakow/POLAND
Joined Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by Bo Lorentzen View Post
YEAH. the Jakub gimbal i awesome..! I really want to see you do it in CF, the glass is a bit heavy for the Phantom.?
I don't think so. 1mm CF ver will be lighter 20-25g maybe?
It's not worth a money.

q
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:05 AM
DJI Phantom pilot
The Netherlands, GE, Culemborg
Joined Jan 2013
242 Posts
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Originally Posted by LotusJay View Post
Should be getting my Phantom tomorrow, I'm really looking forward to getting some decent footage with it.

For all the people having problems with jello I have discovered the video below which mentions the use of filters to reduce the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12psgQFBNbU
Interesting: this explains why my night flights have no jello at all.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by LotusJay View Post
Should be getting my Phantom tomorrow, I'm really looking forward to getting some decent footage with it.

For all the people having problems with jello I have discovered the video below which mentions the use of filters to reduce the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12psgQFBNbU
WOW!!! That's AMAZING!!! There may be the slightest bit of jello still but if he balanced his props (clearly he didnt) AND used this filter to lower the shutter speed of the GoPro, then it seems to be THE SOLUTION! I'm from the camera side of things, buying the Phantom to add a new option for my video production business and was wondering about this very thing. It seems the GoPro 3 at 1080 60p was giving more micro vibrations then the GoPro 2 at 720 60p, making me think it was lower resolution that would help, so I switched my GoPro 3 to 720 60p and it maybe helped just slightly but not entirely.

What this indicates is the GoPro 3s increased sensitivity over the GoPro 2, is causing the shutter speed to increase (or some kind of ISO adjustment) that may be causing some of the micro vibration I still see even after balancing the props. This major jello effect would go away about 95% if he balanced the props, but it sure looks remarkably better with the ND filter on it!

I'm going to check into this more for sure since my main goal with this is steady, clean aerial video for my productions. (Though I am having a blast flying it and may now be "hooked" on RC Quads!).
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:10 AM
A330 Pilot (Rtd)
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United Kingdom, England, Hartlepool
Joined Jan 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub J View Post
Phantom dedicated version will be avialable in a few days -
I have just receive my Phantom

Jakub
Hi Jakub,

When you mean a few days, are you talking about less that a week or maybe less than a month?

Do you know how it's likely to perform with regard to rolling shutter (JELLO)?

Regards

atlanticbaron
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:16 AM
A330 Pilot (Rtd)
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United Kingdom, England, Hartlepool
Joined Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by steveh1012 View Post
Hi Brandigan
We are TV people rather than RC modellers so cant advise, took the recommend of the guys in here. We are pretty happy with the Emax Metals. From what i can gather there are a couple of alternatives though sure the serious RC guys in here would advise. One of the issues is some servos dont want to play nice with the Naza I'm told. As the phantoms are a training platform for us i'm not super fussy about a little stepping, If we want Smoooooth then the Zenmuse on a bigger flight platform is the only real option at the min for pro use IMHO

PS the Emax are the servos that Quadframe the guys who make the mount sell along side it and list as recommended (just popped on to there site to check) they have also tested with the HYPERION DS11-SCB ??? but not sure if the Naza likes these
Steve,

Have you managed to fly the Quadframe mount as yet? I'm particularly interested to find out if there's any evidence of rolling shutter - I'm planning on using a GroPro 3 Black.

regards

atlanticbaron
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:19 AM
A330 Pilot (Rtd)
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United Kingdom, England, Hartlepool
Joined Jan 2013
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UK CAA Approval

Has anyone on this forum gone through the UK CAA approval process for Aerial Work?

atlanticbaron
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:20 AM
FPVpilots do it remotely
United States, CA, West Hollywood
Joined Jan 2008
2,692 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub J View Post
I don't think so. 1mm CF ver will be lighter 20-25g maybe?
It's not worth a money.

q
My credit card most definitely want to try one.

If I recall the gimbal is about 150g ? that put it with camera just a bit heavy, it actually flies fine with the stock gimbal I got from you. I added a isolation box to kill the jello, but would love to get it down to 120grams if possible to stay under the Phantom advertised limit of 1000g
I would say, make CF a option and charge for the extra material, and slab on $20 for yourself if people really want the CF.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfreddy View Post
WOW!!! That's AMAZING!!! There may be the slightest bit of jello still but if he balanced his props (clearly he didnt) AND used this filter to lower the shutter speed of the GoPro, then it seems to be THE SOLUTION!
Lower shutter speed = softer image. Partly what is happening is you're seeing blurring instead of vibration.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:10 PM
FPVpilots do it remotely
United States, CA, West Hollywood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandigan View Post
Lower shutter speed = softer image. Partly what is happening is you're seeing blurring instead of vibration.
@Brandigan THANK YOU.!

This is a BIG pet pieve of mine. ND filters do NOT remove jello.
ND filters do two things.
1. soften the image to HIDE (not remove) jello.
2. reduce the light to the sensor which cause the camera to increase gain which in turn reduce dynamic range and color quality.

First - Jello is caused by CMOS sensors because they scan from top to bottom each line in the image. because of the progressive way of scanning, if there is vibration the camera can move side to side in the vibration multiple times during ONE scan.. as a result what was a straight line become a wobbly line with a sinus curve. that is JELLO.

IF the camera scan slower. then the camera will manage to complete its vibration for each scan line.. in other words the jello have been converted to sideways motion blur. that is motion blur which is not sharpness. ;-) so if you are shooting 1440p want to play with 2.7k cine.. just please forget the ND filter. the right answer is rock solid camera mounts with absolutely no vibration.

I am not saying a ND filter can not help, it sure can.! but it ONLY can convert jello to soft image/ motion blur effect.

I have posted this video before, that is what a Hero3 look like on a ROCK steady camera mount, there is NO jello in this clip... but that camera mount is about 2000grams or more. twice the flying weight of the Phantom.
My point is, ONLY a stable mount will give you the _Clarity_ in the image as if the camera was sitting on your table. putting a ND filter will remove the jello, but the image will not have the pop and clarity as if the jello was really removed.

The issue with jello on a Phantom is multi-side because the max weight the phantom should lift is 1000g, that give about 200g for gimbal and camera. with a 75-80g Hero3 that leave 120g max for the gimbal. weight is everything for smooth flying. I have spend a lot of time trying the gimbal with lightweight servos so it is only 50g.. BUT 50grams is simply not enough to absorb the remaining vibration energy.. instead taping on a couple of old AA batteries to bring the weight to 120g. and jello is gone. ;-) its all a compromise.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:17 PM
Videographer/Product Reviews
Joined Oct 2012
1,740 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfreddy View Post
WOW!!! That's AMAZING!!! There may be the slightest bit of jello still but if he balanced his props (clearly he didnt) AND used this filter to lower the shutter speed of the GoPro, then it seems to be THE SOLUTION! I'm from the camera side of things, buying the Phantom to add a new option for my video production business and was wondering about this very thing. It seems the GoPro 3 at 1080 60p was giving more micro vibrations then the GoPro 2 at 720 60p, making me think it was lower resolution that would help, so I switched my GoPro 3 to 720 60p and it maybe helped just slightly but not entirely.

What this indicates is the GoPro 3s increased sensitivity over the GoPro 2, is causing the shutter speed to increase (or some kind of ISO adjustment) that may be causing some of the micro vibration I still see even after balancing the props. This major jello effect would go away about 95% if he balanced the props, but it sure looks remarkably better with the ND filter on it!

I'm going to check into this more for sure since my main goal with this is steady, clean aerial video for my productions. (Though I am having a blast flying it and may now be "hooked" on RC Quads!).
Note, however, that the person is flying an XP2 quad, which has a built dampening system to start with.

The camera mount/landing gear is attached to the main frame utilizing four rubber dampers, and they work pretty darn well to start with.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:20 PM
HGT
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United States, CO, Parker
Joined Jan 2013
3,566 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub J View Post
I don't think so. 1mm CF ver will be lighter 20-25g maybe?
It's not worth a money.

q
25gr is a lot for the Phantom when we are already pushing it to the limit with a GoPro Hero. I think it flys poorly with a 1000gr take off weight and that's what DJI is asking it be limited to.... not to mention a 3K twill sure looks nice.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:26 PM
DJI Phantom pilot
The Netherlands, GE, Culemborg
Joined Jan 2013
242 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandigan View Post
Lower shutter speed = softer image. Partly what is happening is you're seeing blurring instead of vibration.
It is partly improved by blurring but there may also be some synchronization effects involved.

To me the slight blur is more acceptable than the horrible jello.

Best solution: a ccd camera, since most of these expose the sensor all at once.
This is demontrated very well in this video:
CMOS vs CCD (3 min 50 sec)


A cousin of mine works with high end video camera's for the movie industry.
His opinion: cmos sensors are totally useless for video.
I tend to agree. They are great for still images.

I can't believe that there are no ccd action cams, it can't be the costs since there are many cheap point and shoot camera's with ccd like the Powershot A2200 above.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:26 PM
FPVpilots do it remotely
United States, CA, West Hollywood
Joined Jan 2008
2,692 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskim View Post
Note, however, that the person is flying an XP2 quad, which has a built dampening system to start with.

The camera mount/landing gear is attached to the main frame utilizing four rubber dampers, and they work pretty darn well to start with.
Yeah, that is another thing, I have a XP2, and am not sure how Chad managed to get jello on that thing, because the heavy alu suspended landing gear really is awesome at killing jello. but it do demonstrate ND filters nicely.
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