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Old Nov 27, 2012, 03:30 PM
Looptastic!
sp00fman's Avatar
Enschede, Netherlands
Joined Nov 2009
2,343 Posts
I understand you. there is cheap, and there is too cheap. the $30 HK450 is the lowest end you can get. Indeed it is not flight worthy out of the box. It was well documented in the 1st HK450 thread. It does take some time and arising problems to filter out the crappy components. If you dont feel like that is a fun challenge, pay more for better parts.

A $40 cyclic servo does not sound cheap to me for just a few gears, a little motor and some basic electronic components. At that price-point it must be possible to produce something reliable.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 03:55 PM
Low rates are for wimps
bwoollia's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined May 2008
3,445 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00fman View Post
I understand you. there is cheap, and there is too cheap. the $30 HK450 is the lowest end you can get. Indeed it is not flight worthy out of the box. It was well documented in the 1st HK450 thread. It does take some time and arising problems to filter out the crappy components. If you dont feel like that is a fun challenge, pay more for better parts.

A $40 cyclic servo does not sound cheap to me for just a few gears, a little motor and some basic electronic components. At that price-point it must be possible to produce something reliable.
+1

There are good examples and bad examples. Noteably, many of the HK series improve or mature over time. I am currently doing an HK550TT FBL build, and that one appears to have undergone some improvements. While it isn't perfect, the discussion here has indicated where improvement is needed, and I have the experience to de-select components that may not be up to the standard.

As far as electronic components is going, I'm making my choices based on feedback in the forums and my own experience.

One might argue that an inexperienced pilot might fall into the trap of economy and not be able to spot the shortcomings of a given kit, but the same pilot may make errors with an expensive premium kit as well (loctite, gear mesh, soldering connectors etc).

I personally enjoy the freedom to choose components and find quality bargains with clones. I prefer to purchase components that are marketed with higher quantities and low cost, vs low quantities and premium prices (when this is an economic factor, not quality).

The key to success with clones is doing your research.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 04:39 PM
352nd FG Association
Moonbeam's Avatar
United States, GA, Decatur
Joined Mar 2004
4,254 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughingstill View Post
All I see here nowadays is people arguing over which CLONE is better than the other and threads about how to build the cheapest 700 class heli with the cheapest electronics and FBL system
When did people just totally take caution and throw it away and just buy because it is cheap???? Does the old adage "you get what you pay for" ever come to mind when deciding on what to buy????
I just saw a thread where guys are upset that the YEP (YGE direct clones with inferior parts) were not in stock at HK. Has HK really dumbed the masses down????
Please people you have to realize, all it takes is for ONE bad incident to happen and WE ALL pay the price in the hobby. Please do the responsible thing and buy quality equipment, build it correctly, and fly responsibly. I would hate to read about someone getting hurt and us all getting thrown under the bus some day........Ron
Another arguement needing a "commom sense" reminder.

I see your view, but keep this in mind, not everyone has the money to buy the good stuff, but they can fly real well. If they had the money they'd buy better stuff.

Think about this too: Remember that young Asian kid who was a sponsored performer at an RC heli event who "lost control" and his heli hit some woman in the face?

I bet he was using high dollar equipment too.

Like anything that needs testing, get your AMA and test fly it at an AMA approved field. If you fly it somewhere else, make sure it works, and that there is no one around you who could get hurt.

JUST USE COMMON SENSE"!!!! (It's a lost art form in todays world. Lets be the ones who bring it back "into style").
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 04:50 PM
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pitchp's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laughingstill View Post
Are you FRIKEN KIDDING ME!!!!! If you are "struggling" you should NOT be buying R/C helis!!! .....Ron
Guys, This is the current mentality that is going around our hobby. How can our hobby grow with this kind of judgmental view. There are sooo many people in America and other parts of the world, that are struggling to make a living, and all they are looking for is may be that one form of happiness that they would find in flying an RCheli. It's people like Ron that pushes other people away from our hobby. It is a shame to see this. Shame on you Ron, just because you fly a $5000 Mikado EXTREME, this makes you a better person than anyone else here in this forum??. shame shame shame
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 04:51 PM
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Joined Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by laughingstill View Post
Thanks a bunch, you understand
2doggs,
I am not saying if you are in a low income bracket that you should not fly helis, I said if you are "struggling" you should not be....no matter what income bracket you are in......Ron
That's a very elitist attitude. If someone wants to join in on the hobby, and there is a market supplying products for him, he should be allowed to. At the end of the day, you are using a toy, not a rolls royce.

I'll highlight Moonbeam's reply: the video posted in this thread by Dejavu indicates to me the complete opposite of common sense: high-quality heli or not, he is flying it only a few meters away from onlookers at high-speed. To me, that's very dangerous flying. All it takes is a moment of inattention or a failure (and yes, they happen on expensive helis as well as cheaper ones) and someone goes to the hospital.

In my opinion, a careful flyer is 100% safer on cheap equipment than one who doesn't care and has a 5k heli. The 'price = safety' idea is illogical. Do you know that statistically someone driving a BWM is at more risk of having an accident than someone driving a Toyota?
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 05:03 PM
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pitchp's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejavu*Xion View Post
+ 1... 700 class heli spinning 2200+ HS with $39 servos, $25 blades, and a $40 FBL controller IS NOT SAFE........Ron


This is the whole point of this thread. .
Please consider the other people who are on a budget and that are struggling with their daily lives. If people want to use a $40 gyro(Tarot ZYX) on their helis, because that is all they could afford, then I say they are more than welcome to be in our hobby.

Julio Memba - Tarot ZYX (2 min 49 sec)
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 05:14 PM
Need More PURPLE !!
Dejavu*Xion's Avatar
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Aug 2012
3,746 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchp View Post
Guys, This is the current mentality that is going around our hobby. How can our hobby grow with this kind of judgmental view. There are sooo many people in America and other parts of the world, that are struggling to make a living, and all they are looking for is may be that one form of happiness that they would find in flying an RCheli. It's people like Ron that pushes other people away from our hobby. It is a shame to see this. Shame on you Ron, just because you fly a $5000 Mikado EXTREME, this makes you a better person than anyone else here in this forum??. shame shame shame
I like this Debate

And here to I will side with Ron. About ten years ago I was really into bass fishing. ( not a cheap hobby unless one is fishing on shore with a bobber and worm) I knew of a guy that lived in a run down single wide trailer Along with his wife and 2 kids. Only along side this trailer he had parked a new ( back then 30k ) Triton bass boat.
How fair was this to his wife and kids that they should live in squaller and eat who knows what as long as Good ol chuck has his $30,000 bass boat with monthly payments.
Like Ron says if one is struggling in life, I would not think its wise to spend money on hobby's, Where that same money should be spent taking care of ones family. Hobby's are a luxury in life. Not a necessity
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 05:18 PM
Need More PURPLE !!
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United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Aug 2012
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Pitchp....I have no quams with ppl using a $50 gyro what so ever. None at all. However if i were to build a 700 size heli. You can bet i wont be using $30 blades, $40 servos And a zyx gyro. But thats just me.

Lets not all forget, In the O.P original post. We are talking about "large" helis . 600-700 size. I just simply believe that when a person has approached the skill level Of safely flying such a beast. Its time to look a bit further down the road then what Hk ( or equivalent ) has to offer in electronics for a bird this size.

If you personally knew me. You would know that deep down i could care less what ppl use to build their birds. They could use a rubberband to power their rotor blades for all i care. I'm simply giving my opinion on what i think is safe and better bet to enjoy what our hobby has to offer.
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Last edited by Dejavu*Xion; Nov 27, 2012 at 05:37 PM.
Old Nov 27, 2012, 05:22 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2012
392 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejavu*Xion View Post
Pichp....I have no quams with ppl using a $50 gyro what so ever. None at all. However if i were to build a 700 size heli. You can bet i wont be using $30 blades, $40 servos And a zyx gyro. But thats just me.
What if your budget didn't allow anything more than $40 servos and a zyx gyro? Would you honestly go 'ok then, I won't get the heli that'll provide me with a ton of fun'?

Comparing what we're talking about (affording a hobby) and a douche who screws his family over to enjoy his is a totally different kettle of fish. I have a budget set aside to do things that I enjoy, and I still keep money aside for my missus on the side.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 05:23 PM
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pitchp's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Aug 2010
6,627 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejavu*Xion View Post
I like this Debate

And here to I will side with Ron. About ten years ago I was really into bass fishing. ( not a cheap hobby unless one is fishing on shore with a bobber and worm) I knew of a guy that lived in a run down single wide trailer Along with his wife and 2 kids. Only along side this trailer he had parked a new ( back then 30k ) Triton bass boat.
How fair was this to his wife and kids that they should live in squaller and eat who knows what as long as Good ol chuck has his $30,000 bass boat with monthly payments.
Like Ron says if one is struggling in life, I would not think its wise to spend money on hobby's, Where that same money should be spent taking care of ones family. Hobby's are a luxury in life. Not a necessity

This is exactly what I'm talking about here. It's people like Ron that push these people to buy a bass boat. I only do land fishing I have a $40 rod, and that gets me by finely. Can you imagine if i met someone like Ron and he tells me that I should be buying my self a boat because it is better?? why do i need a boat for? Thankfully i'm not that weak minded that i would go out there and put everything aside and buy a boat. land or surf fishing does me fine with my $40 kmart rod
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 05:25 PM
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejavu*Xion View Post
Pichp....I have no quams with ppl using a $50 gyro what so ever. None at all. However if i were to build a 700 size heli. You can bet i wont be using $30 blades, $40 servos And a zyx gyro. But thats just me.
horses for courses. each to their own
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 05:42 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
4,992 Posts
and at the end of the day, we'll just subscribe to the threads that are of interest to us. Sure enough, the ones dealing with all the cheap stuff, like the ZYZ, Robird, various HK helis etc will continue to be the most active threads. That suggests that most people are quite up to the challenge of finding cheap stuff that works.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 06:00 PM
Need More PURPLE !!
Dejavu*Xion's Avatar
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Aug 2012
3,746 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchp View Post
This is exactly what I'm talking about here. It's people like Ron that push these people to buy a bass boat. I only do land fishing I have a $40 rod, and that gets me by finely. Can you imagine if i met someone like Ron and he tells me that I should be buying my self a boat because it is better?? why do i need a boat for? Thankfully I'm not that weak minded that i would go out there and put everything aside and buy a boat. land or surf fishing does me fine with my $40 kmart rod
I see your side/Point. Really i do. I dont think Ron is pushing ppl to buy high grade electronics. From what i gather he just seems to be A Lil irritated with threads and posts from ppl trying or wanting to build large helis on a very small budget.
I think he is just nudging those ppl to up their game a little bit, and try and have them spend a bit more for proven quality components for their large birds. I think we all agree that the mark-up on some said products is outrageous and not necessary.
I for one think align ds610's work awsome on a 600-700 size heli. And they only cost $60 a piece. Better quality for a lousy $20 more. ( then again that $20 may be some modelers lunch money for the week ) So who the heck knows..lol
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 06:10 PM
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laughingstill's Avatar
Gainesville, Florida
Joined Sep 2006
2,954 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchp View Post
This is exactly what I'm talking about here. It's people like Ron that push these people to buy a bass boat. I only do land fishing I have a $40 rod, and that gets me by finely. Can you imagine if i met someone like Ron and he tells me that I should be buying my self a boat because it is better?? why do i need a boat for? Thankfully i'm not that weak minded that i would go out there and put everything aside and buy a boat. land or surf fishing does me fine with my $40 kmart rod
It is obvious that you are either unable to understand what I am saying or unwilling. You are dead wrong in you assessment in what I said, and what this whole post is about.
Yes you can fish with a $40 pole.....who has ever been killed by a pole that flew into a crowd???? How many people here that fly the "cheap" stuff complain about it either not working or malfunctioning.......WAY more than the people who buy quality stuff. YeES they ALL have issues from time to time, BUT the fact remains that the SUPER LOW END stuff has more trouble than the quality stuff. I am not saying that you have to spend $5000 on a heli to have a quality bird.... I DO THINK however that the larger the bird, the more cautious you have to be when selecting the equipment going in it because of the potential for SERIOUS INJURY!!!!!
I am not talking about a dumb thumb by a pilot, I AM talking about tail cases flying off, blades snapping at the root, FBL controller going ape %$#@ right after lift off ETC.
You cheap out, you take the chance BY YOURSELF. Don't subject bystanders and property owners to your lack of judgement.
BTW would you fly an airline that used cheap parts that failed all the time but someone "found a solution" to make it work??? I don't think so.......then YOU would be paying for someone else's bad judgement
As to the trailer guy with the 30K boat.....they are struggling and HE should not be buying the 30K boat....he should fish from the shore until he could AFFORD the boat.........Ron
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 06:11 PM
Need More PURPLE !!
Dejavu*Xion's Avatar
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Znybar View Post
What if your budget didn't allow anything more than $40 servos and a zyx gyro? Would you honestly go 'ok then, I won't get the heli that'll provide me with a ton of fun'?

Comparing what we're talking about (affording a hobby) and a douche who screws his family over to enjoy his is a totally different kettle of fish. I have a budget set aside to do things that I enjoy, and I still keep money aside for my missus on the side.
I feel like I'm taking over this thread, And thats the last thing i want. Znybar: to answer your question. Yes i would use $40 servos and a zyx gyro. But on a 500 size or smaller. With a 600 or larger bird i would not. Hmmmm does that make me a hypocrite ??

On that note I'm taking a back seat now.
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