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View Poll Results: Are you interested in a Multiplex Sonic Liner clone?
I'd strongly consider buying one 76 54.68%
I would possibly consider buying one 31 22.30%
no interest 29 20.86%
other thoughts- explain in your post 3 2.16%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Jan 31, 2013, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by GoatZilla View Post
I think you simultaneously missed the point while reinforcing your own premise.

It doesn't matter what "category" you try to pigeonhole a plane into as long as it is a good design. Slapping whatever categorical name on it doesn't change the fact that it is a large foamie with a canard and a long fuselage which would be just as convenient, if not more so, for people who want to make modifications as with the EasyStar.

That being said, I'm starting to actually come around to you and Jurgen's side on this one.

One of the original reasons I said the plane failed was that people just weren't ready for a large foamie. They were too caught up in their own biases, particularly since the old balsa crowd was still very painfully present, creating a "this plane falls into this category and thus cannot be seriously regarded" attitude.

And quite frankly, it looks like that attitude hasn't changed. You guys just now subdivide into "beginner's vs warbirds vs gliders vs 'transport planes'" instead of just looking at something for what it is.

What a sadly stunted hobby this is. So many misguided, ham-handed things that we still have to contend with.
Perhaps I did miss your point but I did answer your last question as it was posed.

I have not pigeon holed any airframe, the airframes are what they are, having been designed to perform a particular function. A Cessna 150 is not a F-115, it cannot be, it does not have the airframe. One may put a EDF in the fuselage of the Cessna, but it will not fly like a F-115.

As for the bias, not sure if it is a bias as much as there are preferences that pilots have. This site is full of those preferences for these various airframes and truthfully, some of those airframes I have no desire to own or fly.

Possibly like you, I have come from the days of free flight, to control line, to diesel ( yes diesel, of sorts ), gas, gliders and electric. Like many others I have contended with those that did not want electric at a field or gliders for that fact. In that mindset, I would say there was bias against anything that was not wood or gas and it was best if a person actually scratch built the plane. If someone had shown up with a wooden scratch built SonicLiner it would have been accepted. They probably would have told the person to put bigger wheels on the plane but, it would have been accepted.

As for this SonicLiner, it just was not popular, regardless of what airframe one would wish to assign it to, if any airframe at all. Of all the threads on this site, how many are dedicated to building this plane, even as a scratch build? Even the SR-71 is limited in it representation here and by manufactuers.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by daddiozz View Post
Factually correct (PDF),however as usual JH has failed to tell the whole story .My first true r/c plane was a Hitec Sky Scooter ,I believe I purchased it in '98 or '99.Its "speed control "consisted of 2 positions ..."on"(WOT) and "off". ...
I wrote "In 2003 Electric Flight was already very popular in Europe - even with dedicated model magazines for electric flight etc.".

Should I have written, that when it comes to computer radios and electric flight Europe was at least 10 years ahead of the USA?

No modeler in their right mind would have bought a Hitec Sky Scooter in 1998/99 over here. Because ESCs were expensive, Graupner introduced the Elektro-UHU in 1988 with a relay-switch for the motor, which was OK for an electric glider or simple models which needed full power anyway to stay airborne.

Jürgen

P.S.: When Multiplex and Hitec joined, they tried to introduce the very popular (at least in the US) Sky Scooter on steroids (Space Scooter) over here and failed ...
It was soon replaced by the Mini-Mag, but that is another story (still ongoing by the way - see: FUNMAN).
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddiozz View Post
Factually correct (PDF),however as usual JH has failed to tell the whole story .My first true r/c plane was a Hitec Sky Scooter ,I believe I purchased it in '98 or '99.Its "speed control "consisted of 2 positions ..."on"(WOT) and "off".Not satisfied with that I returned to the LHS in seek of a speed controller ,I ended up with something similar to the first inset photo (on the left of this plate)It was designed for and came from an early r/c car ,but I managed to make it work after a fashion...

Comparing then "modern" electronics to todays electronics is like comparing a Ford Model "T" to a Bugatti Veyron ..even as recent as 2004 doesn't compare to today (photos 2-7 from MPX's 2004 catalog)...and li-pos were so new to MPX that they ended up on the back cover...


My first SL purchased in 2004 (NIB) 2nd in 2006 from another modeller as well as #3 in 2008 at a swap meet.Only the first one was purchased from a dealer ,after that one I never again saw one in a hobby shop.

Very cool stuff, Daddiozz. It is simply amazing how far our hobby has come in the past ten years. You were an electric pioneer!

The catalog pages are a trip...incredible to see them introducing lipo batteries (sub-10C no less). I can only imagine how expensive they were!

Thanks for sharing your experiences and the pictures!!!
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
I wrote "In 2003 Electric Flight was already very popular in Europe - even with dedicated model magazines for electric flight etc.".

Should I have written, that when it comes to computer radios and electric flight Europe was at least 10 years ahead of the USA?

No modeler in their right mind would have bought a Hitec Sky Scooter in 1998/99 over here. Because ESCs were expensive, Graupner introduced the Elektro-UHU in 1988 with a relay-switch for the motor, which was OK for an electric glider or simple models which needed full power anyway to stay airborne.

Jürgen

P.S.: When Multiplex and Hitec joined, they tried to introduce the very popular (at least in the US) Sky Scooter on steroids (Space Scooter) over here and failed ...
It was soon replaced by the Mini-Mag, but that is another story (still ongoing by the way - see: FUNMAN).
Are you insinuating I wasn't in my right mind when i bought the Sky Scooter?Careful sir ,lest the mods consider that a personal attack...
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by daddiozz View Post
Are you insinuating I wasn't in my right mind when i bought the Sky Scooter? ...
Please read the whole sentence. I wrote "over here", i.e. in Europe, so you are automatically excluded, as you don't live here.

Jürgen
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
It is simply amazing how far our hobby has come in the past ten years. You were an electric pioneer!
...
Well, if you consider somebody flying an electric model in 2002 to be an electric pioneer, I probably have to correct my statement that the US was 10 years behind regarding electric model aircraft.

Graupner introduced the first commercial electric powered RC glider (the HI-FLY) in 1972. Those guys were pioneers. My first electric airplane was a converted Marks Models Bushwacker in 1977.

Jürgen
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Well, if you consider somebody flying an electric model in 2002 to be an electric pioneer, I probably have to correct my statement that the US was 10 years behind regarding electric model aircraft.

Graupner introduced the first commercial electric powered RC glider (the HI-FLY) in 1972. Those guys were pioneers. My first electric airplane was a converted Marks Models Bushwacker in 1977.

Jürgen
Be careful. You're going to give yourself a bruise from all the patting of yourself on the back.

yes, electrics have been around for almost 40 years...I know folks (even Americans...imagine that!) who have been flying them from the beginning. What daddiozz was engaged in, I believe was the beginning of this phase of the hobby. I give him a lot of credit for being an early adopter and coming up with his own solution for the shortcoming of the esc.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
Be careful. You're going to give yourself a bruise from all the patting of yourself on the back.
Don't worry - I just merely provided a few more facts.

Of course there have been electric pioneers in the USA too. You may want to Google "Astro Flight / Bob Boucher" to name just one of them.

Jürgen
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
yes, electrics have been around for almost 40 years....

I give him a lot of credit for being an early adopter ...
Well, actually it is already more than 40 years.

"Early adopter" sounds a lot better in this context than pioneer.

Jürgen
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 07:52 AM
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So all of this just reinforces the fact that the electric RC hobby has matured in the time since the Sonic Liner has been unobtainable...

...it's a quality airframe with stunning aesthetics and all-too-rare canard functionality and potential for use as an FPV platform.

It deserves another shot!
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Please read the whole sentence. I wrote "over here", i.e. in Europe, so you are automatically excluded, as you don't live here.

Jürgen
How certain are you that I wasn't living/visiting there at the time?...The USA does have military bases in Euroland ,does it not?

The fact of the matter is ,I am slightly crazy,... as most of us on RCG are ,how else can you explain why we continue to beat this dead horse for a couple months now ?
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 09:52 AM
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How certain are you that I wasn't living/visiting there at the time?...The USA does have military bases in Euroland ,does it not?
Don't ask how he knows...He's an engineer. Engineers are experts in everything!

I work closely and am related to many engineers. This is 100% standard.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 10:35 AM
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Don't ask how he knows...He's an engineer. Engineers are experts in everything!

I work closely and am related to many engineers. This is 100% standard.
Yeah ,I know ...my early college years were as a student at Ga Tech...in the pre-computer ,slide-rule days ..everbody was a "know it all" there .
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
What you consider "negativity" is just "reality".

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=26

The only way to get rid of Sonic Liners was to sell them way below list price. As you probably have seen from my picture, I bought mine for €59.90.



Jürgen
Perhaps their list price was too high to begin with and that prompted its failure ?I noticed in another thread that you had purchased a new Twinstar for 55...was that list? or a reduced price as well? I throw this out only that you made the comparison of the 2 being similar in size /weight/power system etc...
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post



Thanks to everyone who shared their opinions and thoughts. My hope for this model stems from looking at the kinds of oddball models that do make it to production from HK and others. To me, this plane seems much more mainstream....so I have hope!!
Oddball is right !!...I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a SL clone from HK sometime in the future ...I've ordered a couple "oddballs" and am considering one or two others depending on quality of materials etc of the first 2 when they arrive...
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